FRINGE: Am I the only one...

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by DigificWriter, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ... who doesn't like most of the terminology created to refer to the 'Redverse' Olivia Dunham? She's no less real than the 'Blueverse' Olivia, and referring to her as 'Fauxlivia' is therefore rather dismissive. I'm also not really a fan of calling her 'Bolivia'. 'Altlivia', on the other hand, I have no issues with as a descriptor because she IS an alternate Olivia.

    Having said that, though, I like the moniker/nickname/descriptor 'Redlivia' better because not only is she from the 'Redverse', her typical hair color is red.

    I also can't help but feel in doing research on her and in watching Over There Parts One and Two that fans and the PTB have kind of undeservingly villified her. She's only doing what she's asked to do in impersonating her 'Blueverse' doppelganger; it's not her fault that 'Walternate' has a personal agenda against the Blueverse and is using her and the alternate Fringe division as part of that agenda.

    What does everyone else think? Am I making too much of an issue out of all of this?
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Either way, it looks like we'll get to see her one last time.
     
  3. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm only 44 1/2 eps into a full first-time watch-through of the series, so you're way ahead if me if you're watching it 'in real time'.
     
  4. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't like Fauxlivia either because as you said, she's just as real. Altlivia sounds stupid and Redlivia is a little clunky.

    I prefer to the call the characters from the both universes by their real names if it's obvious who's talked about, otherwise I add Blue or Red instead of coming up with clever nicknames. i prefer Red Walter to Walternate for example.

    It's weird that in this entire conflict I was always more on the red universes side, they were the ones who suffered, red Walter because blue Walter kidnapped his son and the entire red universe because blue Walter screwed it up. Red Olivia infiltrating the blue universe was pretty heroic and selfless if we consider what she knew, those were evil doppelgaenger from a universe that had attacked them first and just recently almost killed a friend and colleague by burning him.

    I loved the blue characters and I lost interest in Fringe after the writers ditched them, but if I had to pick a "villain" in the red/blue conflict it would be blue Walter, red Walter couldn't let it got but he was the onewho lost his son ans saw his entore world suffering and that was all blue Walters fault.
     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Fauxlivia is an awesome nickname. Isn't the other Walter referred to as Walternate?

    God, I need to catch up on Fringe. :lol:
     
  6. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    While I can understand Red Walter/Walternate's initial anger and grief, he has the blood of countless people from both universes on his hands, which cancels out any sympathy he might be due. He might put the blame on Blue Walter, but he's the one who is truly responsible for the conflict between the universes. Blue Walter never should've taken Peter, but he wasn't intentionally trying to cause harm. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of Walternate/Red Walter.

    Besides the Fauxlivia and Bolivia monikers for Alt-Livia/Red-Livia there's one other thing I'm not too keen on: nobody in the Blueverse noticing that Blue Olivia had been replaced by Red-Livia. It stretches credibility that nobody thought anything of her odd/off behavior. Even if she had brushed off their concerns, somebody should've at least mentioned her odd/off behavior and from all indications nobody did.

    Skywalker, faux means fake, and Red-Livia is just as real as Blue Olivia, and, as I noted, is undeservingly villified. She's just doing her job based on what her superiors have told her, and she has no way of knowing that most of what she's been told is wrong.
     
  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Well, sure. But it sounds cool. :D

    Now, I'm woefully behind on Fringe, so I think I'll bow out here before I spoil myself too much. ;)
     
  8. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What countless people? It's been a long time since I saw the episodes but red Walter really wasn't that bad, the embering in the red universe was necessary to contain the evnts that are threatening their world, it did lead to the loss of many people but that's not really his fault, they have to contain these things if they don't want to see their world ripped apart. And let's not forget that blue Walter used to experiment on children, red Walter isn't a nice guy, but blue Walter isn't an angel either. You don't damage a universe and then make it right by saying "Oops, I didn't mean to".

    Not really, look at it from his perspective, his son is kidnapped and his entire universe damaged, how could he not see this as an unprovoked attack? Of course he escalated the conflict but he saw countless people die and being embered and he blames blue Walter for everyone of these deaths, they are both damaged men, red Walter isn't just an evil bastard, I feel bad for him (which doesn't mean I loke him as a person).
    Even if it was unintentional, blue Walter is ultimately responsible for pretty much everything.


    I disagree, he had good intentions, he wanted to cure Peter, but he still kidnapped and never returned him, that was intentional and he knew how much it would hurt Peter's real parents. The damage to the red universe was unintentional but that doesn't mean he has no responsibility.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    They called her fauxlivia becuase she dressed up and spied on the blue team pretending to be their Oliva.

    (Has this all been a huge Halo joke? Red vs Blue?)

    They know everyone is real.

    When she came back as a friend, Walter was annoyed with himself that he liked her a little more than the other Oliva.

    However I'd just like to take a minute to remind you all of a Bishopian word that really warms my cockles.

    "Vagenda"
     
  10. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why are you making your saltwater clams watch Fringe?
    And how do you know they aren't just too close to the TV set when they get al warmed up? Should we be sending anonymous emails to the RSPCA?

    I tended to prefer Bolivia. In my head, "Fauxlivia" was spelled "Foe-livia."
     
  11. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Wasn't "Bolivia" only used to describe OUR (Blue) Olivia during the time she was possessed by Bell's soul? Because the "B" prefix makes no frickin' sense when applied to her Red Universe counterpart at all.

    I LOVE the "Fauxlivia" nickname. Quite clever.

    And apropos of nothing, I like lively action-hero Red Universe Olivia a LOT more than our boring, laid back Olivia.
     
  12. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Forbin: Nope. Bolivia is a moniker uses by both fans and the PTB to refer to Red-Livia/Alt-Livia. It grew out of scripts that denoted the character as B-Olivia.

    stj: Pronouncing the term Fauxlivia 'foe-Livia' doesn't make any more sense because she isn't anyone's foe. She was just doing the job she'd been given. The whole romance/intimacy with Peter was a complication that she couldn't have avoided without the risk of blowing her cover and wasn't a part of her assignment. It just sort of happened.

    Takeru: What deaths does Walternate have on his head? For starters, any deaths caused by the actions of ZFT, David Robert Jones, Thomas Jerome Newton, and/or the Shape-Shifters. I also think there's a strong argument to be made that Walternate ultimately bears responsibility for any deaths caused by anything related to The Pattern at all (although, in that case, the blame can also be placed on Blue Walter as well).
     
  13. NCC1701MF

    NCC1701MF Captain Captain

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    For those who have the Science channel, today Jan 12, they started showing at 11:30 am EST season 1 from episode 11 thru the season ender, then at 11 pm they will show the pilot and the second episode. They run longer than the usual one hour, since they do have some interludes on some of the science referenced in the episodes. John Noble introduced the first episode today.
     
  14. Warp Coil

    Warp Coil Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd wondered where the nickname "Bolivia" came from. Now I know. Works for me. "Fauxlivia", while fun to say, is not even remotely accurate in the sense that she IS Olivia Dunham, just a different version. She's not a fake (though, yes, she did impersonate the "blue universe" Olivia for a time).

    Walternate is just an awesome nickname, though. Perfect.
     
  15. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm in the midst of watching The Box and the writers have officially ticked me off. They deliberately went out of their way to make Red-Livia unlikable and villainous and there was absolutely no reason to.
     
  16. IndyJones

    IndyJones Vice Admiral Admiral

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    <trying not to say something that'll ruin your enjoyment of the show>

    This is a tough discussion to have with you 3 seasons behind on the show. The people here who are caught up with the episodes will (reasonably) have a much different take on this subject than the one you have now (also a reasonable position for where you are in the show).

    So...hurry up and watch it so we're all on the same page!
     
  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Although I'm only on Season 3, I've done some online research so I have a fairly good idea of future events, and my assessment of Red-Livia is based as much on what I've learned about her through said research as on where I am in my watching. In fact, given what I know of future events, it makes even less sense for the writers to do what they did in The Box.

    Edit: I just realized that your post had nothing to do with Red-Livia at all, and therefore have this to say: regardless of what happens in future seasons, Walternate still bears the responsibility for perpetuating and exacerbating the hostilities and antagonism between the two universes, and he is very much a bad guy for doing so regardless of whatever justification he might see for taking the actions he's taken.
     
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Ah, okay, that actually makes sense now. :)