Fox Developing "Gotham" Young Jim Gordon Series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Admiral_Young, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    EW has new character posters here with brief descriptions of each character. Poison Ivy's real name is revealed to be Ivy Pepper in this version of the character rather than Pamela Isley.
     
  2. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Changes like this bug me. I wonder if there's a story reason for it or if they just changed it arbitrarily.
     
  3. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that bugs me too. Especially since she appears to be the only character with a new name. It's not to make it more believable, IMO Pamel Isley is a lot better name than Ivy Pepper.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, such changes have been made before. Batman: The Animated Series invented the name Dr. Victor Fries as Mr. Freeze's secret identity; the only real name he'd been given before was Dr. Schivel in the '66 TV series (which also changed his villain name to Mr. Freeze from Mr. Zero). B:TAS also changed the Clock King's name from William Tockman to Temple Fugate (a play on tempus fugit, "time flies"), and Killer Croc's name from Waylon Jones to (something) Morgan.
     
  5. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    I guess it depends on how well established a character is. If it was a one-time person that they decided to re-invent with a new name, fine. But a long standing character like Poison Ivy has a name, a name that has been used in many iterations of Batman. Changing it now seems...odd.
     
  6. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    A name change like that seems like an easy way to get negative buzz going. Comic die-hards may not be the majority of the audience but they probably generate a lot of the word-of-mouth. Stuff like this gets people skeptical before it even airs.
     
  7. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    More likely we can file it with organic web shooters as one of the many things online fandom complained about but which ended up having no impact on the success of the movie or TV show once it debuted.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The Clock King had been an established, recurring villain in the comics since 1960, and even appeared in the sole '66 TV storyline written by Batman's true creator, Bill Finger. That didn't stop B:TAS from changing his name.

    New things always seem odd -- but then we get used to them and forget that they were ever anything other than normal.
     
  9. DEWLine

    DEWLine Commodore Commodore

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    I wonder what this show's version of Gotham's map will look like. Will they stick with any of the previously published editions, or start over from scratch?
     
  10. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps Ivy changes her name to Pamela Isley when she grows up or something in this universe. Ivy Pepper sounds like an alias.
     
  11. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    In Gotham, Ivy Pepper is the executive assistant of Stark Tony, the Man of Iron.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Although they both sound like names that a writer concocted to resemble "Poison Ivy." I mean, really, P. Isley? That's hardly any less contrived. It just sounds more normal to us because we're used to it. Honestly, looking at it objectively, I think it makes a bit more sense for someone whose actual name is Ivy to adopt "Poison Ivy" as a nickname. Although it'd be fine if it were something like Ivy Richardson or Ivy McKay or something uncontrived like that.
     
  13. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    ^^ Come on, admit it, you just really like the name Ivy Pepper. ;)
     
  14. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    It just makes me question why they get changed in the first place. What was the writer's reason for the change? It doesn't upset me so much as confuse me.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Actually, I don't care for it much at all. I'm just pointing out that "Pamela Isley" is contrived in its own way.


    It's hard to know the reason for something in a story you haven't seen yet. But I can speculate. Given that this show is taking a relatively naturalistic approach and portraying these characters before they became supervillains, with the origin-story elements as subtext in what's presented as a more straightforward crime drama, it stands to reason that they'll avoid using any of the characters' noms de crime in the show. So maybe changing her name to Ivy was intended to make it clearer that she would one day become Poison Ivy. Although I'm not sure that's a good explanation, because they haven't changed Edward Nygma's or Oswald Cobblepot's name.

    Sometimes TV shows and films change character names for legal reasons, to avoid entanglement with real people of the same name. Sometimes it's because there's only one person in the country with that name (which was why the original name for Star Trek: Enterprise's captain, Jackson Archer, was changed to Jonathan), and sometimes it's because there's a person with that name who has the same job, residence, or other characteristics as your character (which was why The Dresden Files' Chicago police detective Karrin Murphy was changed to Connie Murphy for TV, because there was a real Chicago police detective named Karen Murphy). I don't know if that would apply here, though, since it's likely that any real teenager named Pamela Isley would've been named after the Batman rogue to begin with.

    Or maybe the writers just really didn't like the name Pamela Isley.
     
  16. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    Due to TV budget Ivy's primary weapon is now going to be pepper spray.
     
  17. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    Every time I've seen the character (in the animated series or in the comics) doesn't she hide by adopting her Pamela Isley persona?

    How will she blend in now?

    "Chief their's a new supervillain out there, she calls herself "Poison Ivy."
    "Maybe it's that Ivy Pepper woman, go bring her in."
     
  18. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Two possibilities. One, Ivy Pepper being Poison Ivy could just be a coincidence. The similarity isn't so much more than Pamela Isley. If her name were Ivy Poison, perhaps, but Ivy Pepper?

    Second, she could always adopt a fake name like Pamela Isley to blend in if her real name is insufficient.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Umm, first off, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to see the name "P. Isley" and notice a resemblance to "Poison Ivy." And secondly, Ivy never wears a mask! In fact, in some of her comics incarnations she hardly wears anything. The only time she was able to "blend in" in Batman: The Animated Series was in her debut episode, before Batman knew she was a criminal. He met Pamela Isley first, then figured out that she'd poisoned Harvey Dent, then tracked her to her greenhouse and found her in costume and insisting that he call her Poison Ivy. After that, her true identity was universally known and the only times she was able to go incognito were when she avoided showing her face at all, and used other aliases like "Dr. Demeter" (although that's not a very tough one to see through).

    Not to mention the fact that the Ivy of the comics has a poison touch -- not exactly something that lets you blend in among civilians. And in some versions she has green skin. So no, a secret identity is not really part of Poison Ivy's general repertoire.
     
  20. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Do any of the villains have secret identities? Catwoman's identity isn't known in some versions and no one knows who the Joker is but what about everyone else?