Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by Merlanthe, Nov 29, 2012.
Welcome back!! Looking fwd to your posts
The return of Shran accompanied by some devious politics. Well not so much politics but there was still a layer of deception going on which seems to happen whenever the Andorians are onscreen. As soon as you see their twitchy blue antennae you know someone somewhere is gonna get lied to or betrayed or double crossed.
It might just be me here but it seemed fairly obvious from the start that Shran wasn’t just there to help Archer but had a mission to complete, one that he wasn’t very happy with. Instead of the loud confrontational headstrong Shran we usually see he was far too quiet, far too calm and far too accommodating. He also seemed quite miserable with himself. I really liked that scene where he was sitting despondently at his desk having reported the success of his mission. As soon as he is informed of the Enterprise appearing on sensors he perks right up. Yeah betraying Archer really didn’t sit well with him. After all the Andorian high command people might view Archer as an expendable pink skin but to the Andorian mining consortium he’s a precious resource :P
I did spend a lot of time this episode watching the Andorians antennae’s trying to figure out a pattern of what emotions their movements might indicate to no avail. I give this episode four and half stars.
I could see where this episode was heading right from the opening scene and right up til Archer exited the pretend escape shuttle I kept hoping it would follow a different path because I really didn’t like Archer and the crew tricking Degra like this.
Even if it works out in getting the info they need to stop the weapon it doesn’t seem like it would help in the long term with building a trusting and peaceful relationship between Xindi and humans which is what they really need if they don’t want the Xindi to just go off and build another weapon. This really elaborate deception seems like the kind of thing that will come back to bite them in the butt.
It also seems really unstarfleet like to me. What happened to all that bright eyed idealism and moral superiority that Archer used to burst at the seams with? The expanse has changed him and the episode does a good job of showing how desperate and harsh Archer is becoming with having all the pressure of saving humanity on his shoulders. But at the same time it doesn’t feel like things have gotten desperate enough to justify this morally dubious deception.
And just because Archer has had weird arm worm things done to him as a prisoner doesn’t mean he would be expert at getting them out of someone else’s arm or even his own. That’s just silly. I’m surprised Degra didn’t call tribble poop on that. Overall it’s a good episode but I just didn’t like it I’m giving this episode three stars.
We get to explore the mystery of the spheres some more yaaay. I must admit as interesting as the sphere plotline was with the weird guy from the alternate plain of existence going from pitiful victim of scientific experimentation to walking through walls and threatening the ship it’s the subplots involving main characters that stick in my mind more. Also with such a long gap in between episodes I may have forgotten a few details. I’m assuming the spatial anomaly creating spheres will tie in with the Xindi arc somehow as there is too much focus being placed on it not to be important also the spheres affect the entire expanse which is where the Xindi’s live right?
I found this whole Trip/T’pol subplot of are you sure you’re not jealous, because you sure are acting jealous? annoying. Imo its been kinda obvious since the first season when he decided to eat dessert at her table that Trip is attracted to T’pol and his relationship with the female maco seems quite sudden and contrived. I suppose that Trip becoming involved with another woman was probably the only way T’Pol would ever acknowledge or even realise the attraction between them but still I found it annoying.
The conflict between Reed and Hayes was more interesting and realistic. Reed is the Enterprise tactical/security officer with experience of the dangers presented by space travel. But Enterprise was intended as a vessel of exploration not a battleship. Hayes and his macos have been specially trained for military purposes. If it ever came down to a choice between the two then it really is a close call of who is better to lead. Luckily there is no choice to be made Reed is the one in command because the macos are there to help and support the Enterprise crew in their mission not supplant them. But at the same time Reed’s naturally suspicious and self doubting personality lead him to see a conflict of authority with Hayes and his hostile behaviour toward Hayes serves to make that conflict a reality.
Reeds behaviour throughout this episode does a lot to escalate the situation beyond reasonable levels when he could have easily calmed it down just by being more positive and open to Hayes suggestions. By the end of the episode they seem to have beaten each other into an uneasy truce of sorts and gained a grudging respect for the others abilities but they are far form best buds and the conflict between them isn’t one that’s easily solved. Up til now the macos have kinda been there in the background ever willing to lend a helping hand but not really getting much focus til now. Im guessing the female maco Trip was romancing will fade back into the background now that his attention is focused solely upon T’pol but the conflict between Reed and Hayes probably isn’t over or at least it shouldn’t be.
Overall four stars.
I cant help but compare this episode to the Voyager one with Seven watching over a sleeping crew.
Having Denobulan’s hallucinate when stressed seems like a plot contrivance. Like I said the gap between watching has left some details a little blurred so please correct me if I’m wrong but I can’t recall seeing Phlox hallucinate before even in situations just as stressful. I find Seven’s loneliness and inability to cope with long periods of isolation because of her past as a Borg drone a more plausible reason for bizarre hallucinations.
Having said that the hallucination of Xindi insectoids boarding the vessel works very well as it is a reasonable fear and plausible occurrence. T’Pols presence is also plausibly real up to a point. Its little things like how she never appears onscreen by herself but only with the doctor and how her knowledge is limited to what he himself knows or things that he may have plausibly picked up through observation that give her hallucinatory status away. Little things that could be overlooked given the claustrophobic seeming way the episode is shot and the possible explanation that her ability to think and recall knowledge has been affected by the whatever it is their travelling through.
There is also the possibility that there might be nothing wrong with the engine and Phlox is merely hallucinating the problem and in trying to save the ship might doom it instead. All in all a good episode but not brilliant. It does illustrate the crews desperation as they try to reach the Xindi weapon before its launched that they are so willing to leave themselves defenceless and dependant upon one individual in a situation where so many things could go wrong. Overall I give this episode three and half stars.
I dont really have much to say about this episode. It felt like a familiar setup going in though I’m not sure from where. I was fully expecting the crew to go the extra mile to save the hatchery and be rewarded for their efforts by the Xindi insectoids rethinking their opinion on humans. Obviously it didn’t go in that direction at all though once Archer started to display erratic and out of character behaviour it was obvious he was being affected by the squirty insectoid egg incident. It was a little annoying waiting for the rest of the crew to cotton on but that mutiny was great. The Reed and Hayes conflict is mostly resolved but can still be seen in subtle little moments.
Overall I give this episode three stars.
Enjoy this thread - reading it is like a trip down memory road! I did watch the first run and am now seriously planning on a rewatch! Thank you!
I watched these two episodes back to back because despite the late hour the tense cliffhanger ending of Azati Prime really grabbed my attention and made it so I had to watch the next episode right then and there. But despite the great ending there was a lot about this episode that didn’t work for me. I feel that Archer made a lot of reallyt stupid decisions.
In my review of Stratagem I said that it didn’t feel like things had gotten desperate enough to justify the morally dubious deception of Degra. This was mainly because with Degra it felt like Archer hadn’t properly explored all his options before jumping straight to the most morally dubious one but I was hard pressed to think of other options that would have worked and they didn’t know how long they could hold Degra before other Xindi started to wonder where he was and came looking for him.
With the unarmed Xindi outpost Archer had two whole hours in which to decide what to do, no reason to rush into any kind of decision and a lot of really obvious options that did not require any kind of bloodshed like maybe beaming up the guys stationed there and holding them in the enterprise brig whilst beaming down a couple crew men to figure out what useful data might be stored there and how the outpost worked so that they could use it to their advantage.
And yet Archer takes almost two minutes to decide to blow it up killing the two Xindi stationed there who were probably already freaking out over having no weapons or means of calling for help whilst a big armed ship was overhead. He doesn’t even consider any other options just jumps straight to the most morally reprehensible one which is made even stupider by how no one onboard enterprise realised that the observation outpost failing to check in would be just as suspicious to the paranoid Xindi as if they had broadcast an alarm.
To follow up that act of unethical stupidity he decides to be the one to do the suicide run mission on which the fate of earth may depend. Travis is the best pilot and, I hate to say it, the most expendable. Even councillor Troi was able to grasp that idea but no Archer has to go. He feels guilty over all the deaths and harm that have happened during this mission, including the two Xindi in the unarmed outpost, and doesn’t want to have to order anyone else to their death. Which is understandable but by refusing to send his most qualified and most expendable crewmember and insisting that he, the captain and arguably the most important crewmember, do it himself he endangers the entire mission.
As it turns out the weapon has already been moved and he gets captured instead and it all works out to his advantage in the end even the erase Degra’s memory stuff but still. Bad leadership decisions.
Azati Prime gets two and half stars.
The title of this episode refers to many things. The physical damage done to the ship. It will take a long time to fix and they don’t have all the parts that they need. They don’t know why the Xindi called off their attack or when they might come back. The Enterprise is a sitting target. Then there is the damage done the crew both in physical injuries and emotional following the sudden and violent loss of friends/coworkers.
Which leads us to T’pol who has been damaged by her addiction/deliberate exposure to trillium D which certainly explains her odd behaviour in last episode and this one but would have been nice to be foreshadowed a bit more. As it was her assertion that they needed to reach a specific cargo bay because it held stuff needed to rebuild the ship did not appear to be anything suspicious until she suddenly suited up and went wandering by herself at night and nearly got squished to death before doing weird science stuff at which I was very confused.
She already has the pa’nar syndrome thing now she has a trillium D addiction? Why do the writers feel the need to keep giving her plot devices that make her lose control of her emotions. Do they not think we can relate to her unless she gets all emotional.
And finally we have the moral and psychological damage done to Archer. For the past few episodes we have seen his desperation and pressure of saving humanity slowly eat away at him making him more cynical and harsh and more willing to set aside his own morals and do bad things for the success of the mission. This is the first episode where he seems to fully realise what has happened to him when, in order to reach a meeting with the Xindi in time, he has to order the theft of a warp coil from a ship of friendly explorers leaving them stranded light years from home. He has become the very thing he once stood against and it shows just how much Enterprise has fallen form what they once were.
This episode gets four stars.
Last episode dealt with the damage done to the ship, the crew, Archer and T’pol. In The Forgotten we finally get to see the ‘damage’ done to Trip. Even though the attack on earth is an event that has been constantly referred back to so many episodes have passed since it happened that most the characters seem to have dealt with it and moved on focusing their attention on preventing further attacks.
So its easy to forget that Trip hasn’t already dealt with his feelings over his sister Elizabeth’s death. Instead he has been repressing his anger and grief but with crewman Kelly’s death and Degra’s presence aboard Enterprise he can’t hide from those feelings anymore. All that anger and grief comes bubbling to the surface leading to some really good acting. Its great that they deal with it here and tying it in with crewman Kelly’s death makes it quite effective. Truth to tell I cant recall whether crewman Kelly was present in any previous episodes though the name sounds familiar. Its sad that only in death does her character become memorable.
In the meantime it seems Degra has rediscovered his erased memories though he doesn’t hold it against Archer in light of the recent evidence that the Xindi have been deceived by their guardians. He wasn’t happy with having to commit genocide anyway so is quite quick to accept Archers evidence. The other Xindi’s aren’t as quick to trust the humans. The sloth dude in particular is a lot more sceptical and less and Archers morally dubious memory erasing deception of Degra back in Stratagem doesn’t help with that. It does feel quite contrived how Degra gets to spend so much time on Enterprise and be guilt tripped by Trip. I would have liked a scene where the Xindi’s talked with T’pol and got to hear her opinion of humans as I think another races viewpoint would have done more to convince them of humanities peaceful explorer status than just humans telling them that 'we're a really nice peaceful race if you take the time to get to know us please dont destroy us all'.
This episode gets four stars.
I have seen this episode before its on my time travel collection. Having seen all of the episodes leading up to this I can understand the ongoing story elements and the Trip T’pol relationship stuff better. Its very similar to a certain DS9 episode though the ending is a lot more open to interpretation. Were they destroyed, wiped form existence, or merely unable to follow and forced to limp off somewhere else. I like to think that they survived and headed off on a mission of exploration and somewhere down the line some federation ship is gonna discover a planet populated by the descendants of these guys.
My only real nag with this episode is that Lorian claims that over the years they have formed alliances with various races in the expanse. So where were these allies? Why haven’t Archer and crew come across a race/world were the human race, their conflict with the Xindi and Enterprise mission to save their race is already well known about? Why didn’t Lorian arrange for one of their allies to have a ship waiting to greet Enterprise when it entered the expanse and impart a few warnings and explanations about potential dangers to avoid and where useful resources could be found?
This episode gets three and half stars.
I only have three episodes (The Council, Countdown and Zero Hour) of season three left to post about but instead of doing individual segments about each episode i'm just gonna do it as one big post which i will try to have up by the end of the week.
This is because i have already watched first eight or so epsiodes of season 4 and now when i look back at the last epsiodes of season 3 my memory is little blurred as to what happened in which episode. Also my dad died last week after suffering for nearly a year from a degenerative disease. So as great as those episodes were im not really in the mood for rewatching it right now.
Wow, sorry to read about your dad. His death and the memories of it will be part of you for the rest of my life. Mine has been gone for 20 years now and I still have the urge to tell him about things I see and do.
I'm sorry for your loss, Merlanthe.
I'm so sorry for your loss Merlanthe.
I'm sorry to hear that merlanthe
okay so a bit later than i said but here are my somewhat jumbled thoughts on The council, Countdown and Zero hour. I really like the different and conflicting xindi cultures that we see in the council scenes. Speak firmly so that the aquatics will see you as trustworthy but not too loudly or the insectoids will see you as aggressive. Also a xindi Avian skull! Its great to see Hoshi being more directly involved in the translation process it gets her off the bridge and shows off her mad language skills. Unfortunately this is what gets her noticed by the reptilians.
Those sphere builders/guardians are quite sneaky. I get the sense that they’ve become quite complacent with everything going their way and the xindi so easily manipulated. Now that the humans have thrown a spanner in the works so to speak and their plan is beginning to unravel they are left scrambling to bring it back together and panic a bit becoming more directly involved than they normally would.
Its also interetsing to see the viewpoints of the different xindi races in these episodes. The aquatics seem to have an attitude of if its not xindi its not our concern. Thankfully they realise the consequences of what the sphere builders are up to and what will happen if they dont involve themselves but it comes at a cost. They wont help the humans if they dont get something out of it that benefits them. The insectoids are easily manipulated because of their paranoia but aren’t completely stupid. They realise they’ve been tricked when the sphere builders become more directly involved tipping their hand so to speak. The reptilians however are just too proud and arrogant to consider that they will eventually be on the losing side of this bargain they have going with the sphere builders even going so far as to start bossing them around making demands.
How the reptilians can honestly believe that they will be the ones calling the shots even after the sphere builders have demonstrated their ability to warp space at will is testament to their unchecked arrogance though that might be down to the guy calling the shots rather than the reptilians as a whole. Hoshi is particularly awesome during all this what with being so resistant to the reptilian mind warping thing and even adding a layer of incription. I wonder if this is because she is human and they haven’t tried the technology with humans before or a reflection of her strength of character. I like to think the latter but the former makes more sense. Sadly it doesn’t last but shes only human and seeing her so traumatised after the experience is heartbreaking.
I like the division of the crew into two different plot lines. We get to see the conclusion of the sphere subplot with Trip and T’pol working together to figure out the spheres and generally being all awesome. They really do work well together. Its annoying though how we have consistently seen other races exposed to subspace anomalies permanently scarred but our crew never is despite flying into an area of space so twisted/irradiated? that they risk death if they stay too long or if they get too close to the sphere at the centre. (yeah im a little confuddled by that not sure if the epsiode itself was a little vague on the details/heavy on the technobabble or if my memory is just fuzzy after so long). I also find it kinda funny how the countdown til exposure levels become fatal is nearly down to zero yet the effects of the exposure are negated simply by removing themselves from the affected area of space. Pretty sure it wouldn’t work like that in real life.
The main plotline of savign the earth has Archer chasing after the reptilians and the stolen weapon. Its all tense and exciting and well paced i thought. He has to leave his beloved Enterprise and make do with the Degra's xindi vessel instead but Shran shows up to help yaaay (please tell me i didnt imagine that part through wishful thinking). Seriously though those reptilians really are idiots and Hoshi manages to be even more awesome than before. Despite the trauma and mental damage she suffered and her fears she manages to pull it together and help. Though I do wonder about the huge possibility of brain damage stressed by dr Phlox that just disappearing rather quickly. Exit stage right pursued by a bear i guess. Also Archer seemed like he was expecting too much and pressuring her into helping before she was ready in some of his interactions with her but she stepped up and was awesome.
and cue the annoying cliffhanger with weird nazi aliens :P
Thanks guys. Despite how ill he was during the last year of his life i have many great memories of my father and all the perosnality traits i inhereted from him and all the stuff he taught me that make me who i am that will stay with me.
Stormfront 1 & 2
Nazi aliens. Hate to say it but voyager did it better.
The whole Nazi era of history is a bit over used imho. It wasn’t the only time that an oppressive and genocidal regime caused trouble and a whole lotta damage. It isn’t even the most recent occurrence yet it seems to be the most popular time period to revisit. Why couldn’t it have been world war 3 that the aliens invaded instead? We never get to see that period of earth’s history and the writers would have had a lot more freedom to be creative.
As it is we got a look at how America might have reacted to an invasion of Nazi’s and Voss is a good villain. Calm, clinical and quite reasonable when it suits him to be. I do wonder why when stranding themselves in a more primitive time period with no knowledge of how or when they would be able to construct a way back they didn’t bother to bring any women with them? I mean it could have taken them decades to figure out the way home and depending how long that species lives it could easily have become a generational mission. Voss was obviously so confident in his scientific skills he didn’t feel the need to plan for that kind of contingency.
Alicia Travers is a really good character but I think Silik is the highlight of this two parter particularly his interactions with Archer and the resistance cell. I feel like the writers didn’t develop or use his character as effectively as they could have over the past three seasons. I also get the sense this episode was a way to close up the whole time travel arc and they didn’t particularly care if it made sense just so long as it was wrapped up and they could move on. I cant say I’m sorry about that but I will regret the loss of Silik.
Okay so its good to see that Archer hasn’t just bounced back into his bright eyed idealistic self and is still being affected by the morally dubious nature of the decisions and actions he took in the expanse. And the physical exertion of rock climbing is a good way to work through his thoughts and feelings. And this female captain she seems like a strong capable character. So why does she have to be his ex girlfriend instead of just an old friend? Needless to say I disliked the romance element of their relationship and greatly prefer them as just friends.
I like T’pols mum. I cant help feeling that her marriage just for the sake of her mothers career is gonna end up being a loss. Does her mother even want to go back after how she was treated? T’pol never stopped to ask her mother this at least not onscreen. And I get the sense that T’pols mother was quite impressed with Trip, likedhim even. I really don’t like Voss. Yeah she doesn’t want to marry him so he brings up being able to help her mother. feels like he blackmailed her into marriage. Why does he even want to marry her when she obviously has no interest in him beside as a means to help her mother?
That stuff in the bar with phlox was funny and worrying all at the same time. Im gonna give this epsiode three and half stars.
Depicting WW3 is rather more expensive than using standing sets and existing costumes.
I liked "Storm Front". It's the kind of whacky story modern Doctor Who does all the time.
Perhaps, but DW is a different show than ST. You could say one expects a certain amount of kahckiness from DW, whilst ST is usually a shade more serious.
I thought of it as a tribute to TOS - the Nazi planet, and also shades of City on the Edge of Forever. I thought it also related to DS9's Past Tense (visiting post-WW3 Earth).
Only in the TNG era (of television) and beyond. TOS had Kirk take on Greek gods, gangsters, Nazis and tons of other silly things. That's the kind of loopyness DW does all the time and which Trek is missing, IMO (this excepted)
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