First Presidential Debate

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by SimpleLogic, Oct 4, 2012.

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Who won the first debate?

  1. Barack Obama

    6 vote(s)
    16.2%
  2. Mitt Romney

    31 vote(s)
    83.8%
  1. SimpleLogic

    SimpleLogic Guest

    First off I'm not trying to spark a who's better or right argument because I just don't get that emotional over politics so please know I'm not trying to start trouble.

    However as a voter and someone who does like to follow and stay informed I was wondering to any who saw the debate who do you think came off as the winner?
     
  2. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    These PR shows are hardly informative. You get influenced by style instead of substance. Furthermore it makes more sense to judge people who run for a public office by their past actions instead of their empty election promises (which are usually released en masse during these TV debates). Romney won't e.g. talk about his job-destructive work at Bain and Obama won't talk about the massive drone war in Pakistan that kills civilians and low-level Al-Qaeda activists.
    Judge 'em by their actions, you want man to do a job and not a rhetorician or a guy who is skilled at covering his turds with glitter.
     
  3. SimpleLogic

    SimpleLogic Guest

    Well I never said that you should only vote based off of this alone but I was just wondering who seemed to get their views across better.
     
  4. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Well, if you read around a bit all the pundits claim that Romney was aggressive and Obama was tired. As I just said this is style and not substance. You shouldn't vote based on who can communicate his ideas better but based on what ideas you prefer independent of how well the guy can sell it. You want the best POTUS, not the best salesman in the White House.
    Listening to politicians is one of the worst ways to inform oneself about them. America is full of brilliant journalists who point out what actually happens beneath the PR screen that political parties and candidates establish around them.
     
  5. SimpleLogic

    SimpleLogic Guest

    I actually like to see them in this type of forum to see how they communicate. I think that Obama came off as looking like he was reaching for answers sometimes, mainly because of his speaking style of uhh...uhh. But I also found it telling that when Gov. Romney was speaking to him in rebuttal that he spent more time looking down and not at Mr. Romney. As to Mitt Romney being aggressive, well as the challenger he kind of has to be. We all know that these debates are a blame game basically to make the other look bad but I do like to watch their faces on how they react to it.
     
  6. indianatrekker26

    indianatrekker26 Captain Captain

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    Oct 8, 2006
    I don't follow much politics myself. I watched the debate last night, and judging on the debate alone, Mitt knocked it out of the park. Obama looked pathetic in there.
     
  7. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Precisely because you as well as millions of others focus on their faces these guys do some training before these TV debates. In an ideal world public servants would not have to focus on such PR shit but on their actual jobs.
    The first step towards such a world is to not watch these debates, to not care about how the candidates look or how they speak, to not be influenced by the PR machinery that elections have become.
     
  8. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    If you ignore the debates, you might as well ignore everything else. And I mean everything.

    Joe Biden to the rescue. This is our most desperate hour.
    Help me, Joe Biden. You're our only hope!!!
     
  9. SimpleLogic

    SimpleLogic Guest

    You still seem to be under some illusion that I said that this is all I cared about in an election though. And to them training to reaction of course they do, they are career politicians. However, Pres. Obama constantly looking down at his notes or away is not a good thing. And if they were worried about image and PR he would have been told not to umm umm all the time when speaking too because that doesn't make him seem like he know's what he wants to say. On the other side even though Romney did sound more sure of himself and his thoughts he was still evasive by not talking about what he was going to do so much as talking about what Obama did not do, again not too helpful either. All I was trying to gauge is how people felt about this one instance in both of the candidates, not trying trying to elect them on this alone, that would be stupid.
     
  10. KimMH

    KimMH Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Prz O seemed disengaged and uninterested. I assumed he was letting Romney flail about and burn himself out. There are two more debates and I suspect Obama will do what he always does; bring the A game when it counts.

    Notwithstanding, I also wonder what kind of voter is still truly undecided at this point in the game? Those voters seem so few it hardly seems worth chasing after them.

    Lehrer was a horrible, ineffective moderator. He would have had more success turning a hose onto them.I do hope he is not lined up to moderate the next debates.
     
  11. { Emilia }

    { Emilia } alta moda Moderator

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    Romney lied and misrepresented his own plans... but: He did put up a good show. He was more awake, more active, more reactive and more fluid in his speech than Obama.

    Obama seemed annoyed at Romney denying his own plans and his speech was terrible I thought. Lots of "uhhh", random stretched vowels while he was thinking, lots of trips of the tongue. And he didn't attack Romney at all.

    That said Obama did explain why all of Romney's silly plans are just "magic" but I'm sure many people were blinded by Romney's decent performance.

    Not happy.
     
  12. indianatrekker26

    indianatrekker26 Captain Captain

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    Oct 8, 2006
    I agree though, the debate won't change voters minds. Those who are set on who they will vote for. And the bickering back and forth will continue between left-wingers and right-wingers. I was reading comments on cnn.com. And yes, it continues. Which is one reason i don't follow politics. Because all both sides do, are just argue with each other, and not listen to each other. No matter who wins the election, half this country will be mad about it.
     
  13. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell so far this is a dumb future Premium Member

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    Pretty much sums it up. Obama can do and has done better. Romney was firing on all cylinders and never let up. There's more fire in him than I'd have given him credit for.
     
  15. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

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    The color-coded ties make it easy for the voters.
     
  16. Drago-Kazov

    Drago-Kazov Fleet Captain

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    Jul 26, 2012
    Seriously what is the difference between the two?
     
  17. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Caped Trek Mod Admiral

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    I agree with both of you. I was disappointed with the President's performance.
     
  18. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    +1

    I support Obama. Romney won. Last night was Leher's last time moderating a debate.
     
  19. KimMH

    KimMH Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If you are American it makes a great difference if you are not a one percenter who needs social security and health insurance and cannot pay for those out of your own pocket.

    If you are not American it makes a great difference if you are in need of international aid. Romney was willing to let th US automotive system go to hell - his own countrypeople. Imagine how he would feel about bailing out Spain, Greece or the rest of the EEU.

    And if you are an international ally you might not wish to be dragged into the military disaster he could blunder us into - would you wish to be dragged into a war that keeping his mouth shut to mollify the fundamental right who voted him in could have prevented?

    In other words, it makes a great difference to everyone.



    http://news.yahoo.com/romneys-strong-debate-showing-puts-europe-edge.150035684.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  20. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    Romney won the debate by a mile. It doesn't matter that he was lying through his teeth, compromising the hard right values he's had to pander to throughout this campaign, actually conceding a lot of policy points to Obama, and acting like a first class prick to the deer caught in the headlights that was Jim Lehrer (although Obama wasn't much better), because all the people in his base who are nervous about him are going to care about is that he came across as strong, tough, direct, vital, and not awkward and robotic. He commanded the stage, literally, and looked presidential. It was a total victory of style over substance, but that was enough for this first debate, where it will build confidence amongst people who can't stand Obama regardless, but weren't thrilled about Romney either.

    Obama has always had a problem with excessive use of verbal crutches (ummms and ahhhs) and pauses, which is indicative of carefully considering his words during an interview or speech, but here it just came off as indecisive and stalling for time. When he wasn't absentmindedly nodding his head at everything Romney said (which is a good technique to show that you're engaged and interested on a date, but not in a debate), he spent far too much time looking down at his notes on the podium. Plus, by the time he got around to making his point half the time he was gone way over the two minute limit, so he had to bully Lehrer around as well.

    If one were to look solely at the facts presented by both candidates in text form without all the extraneous pauses, ummms, and "zingers," Obama would have won in my opinion, because much of Mitt's claims won't pass the smell test. But from a total presentation standpoint, Mitt dominated. I was expecting him to win the debate, because the challenger usually wins the first debate by virtue of simply holding their own against the incumbent and not coming across like an idiot, but I was not expecting this Mitt Romney to show up. This is probably the one and only time this comparison will ever be used about these two candidates for obvious reasons, but Mitt was the Harlem Globetrotters to Obama's Washington Generals this time out. Obama will hopefully be much improved next time (plus, it's a town hall format, which is more his speed).