First Contact alternate timeline

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by dulcimer47, May 15, 2013.

  1. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    I've always believed that there was some minor alteration of the timeline flowing out of the events in FC. For instance if the NX-01 originally had another name, say Dauntless, that would explain it being absent from the "Enterprise" display in TMP.

    Re; "Trials and Tribbleations", I've always wondered if the absence of those two guys from the line-up might have altered their career paths at all from not having that black mark on their records.
     
  2. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Location:
    SB-31, Daran V
    I do not agree that there is an alternate timeline in which ENT takes place. ENT is in the same timeline as the rest of TOS, TNG, DSN, and VOY.
     
  3. T'Pol's Love Slave

    T'Pol's Love Slave Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2002
    Location:
    T'Pol's Quarters, NX-01
    Didn't "Regeneration" solidify the fact that it was time loop? The message sent by the Borg in that episode leads to every instance of The Borg in TNG, which leads to "First Contact", which leads back to "Regeneration."
     
  4. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    The more you look at the evidence the more plausible it becomes that FC created an alternate timeline. Similar to the original but subtle differences do to pollution of the timestream by the Borg and ENT-E crew.

    I just rewatched the TNG episode First Contact where Picard says the Federation's first contact with the Klingons led to decades of war. However in the ENT episode 'Broken Bow' we saw first contact with the Klingons and there was no open hostilities that caused a war. Even up to season 4 of ENT, the Klingons and Earth had a uneasy but mutual respect for one another.

    What changed? Why does the history Picard state happened (First Contact 1991) contradict what was shown in ENT in 2001? The Temporal Cold War is your answer. Future Guy a being from the 28th century gave the Suliban technology and directives to help him change/rewrite history in his favor. Just like the Sphere Builders used the Xindi to change what would happen in the 26th century in their war against the Federation and the Enterprise J. Using time travel alters the past and creates alternate or parallel timelines. A new series of events that would never have occured if time travel had not been employed. Had the Suliban (who were following Future Guy's orders) never shot the Klingon Klaang down in Broken Bow, Oklahoma. First Contact between Earth and the Klingons would have been different and likely more hostile.

    It's because of Future Guy, and the Sphere Builders meddling in the past that Archer and his crew became apart of events to make sure history played out like it should have unaltered. Had Future Guy the Sphere builders and the Na'kuhl never attempted to change history with time travel. We can assume the NX-01 crew would've had a very uneventful first couple of years as they explored.


    With regards to the name Enterprise. It's likely named that because Deanna told Cochrane the name of their ship and Riker showed Cochrane what it looked like. Cochrane who worked on the NX project probably suggested the first warp 5 ship be called Enterprise after his experience with the ENT-E crew like T'Girl said.


    With what we see before in TMP with Captain Decker showing Ilia all the ships named Enterprise but we don't see the NX-01. In STID Admiral Marcus has a model of the NX-01, but Picard has no such model on the ENT-D or E. In "Trials and Tribble-ations, the Temporal Star Fleet guys refer to Kirk's Enterprise as the "first enterprise". The Terrestial year for Trials and Tribblations is 2373, with the stardate being 4523.7. FC the movie the terrestial year is 2373 but the stardate is 50893.5. In Star Trek Nemesis we see one of the ships the ENT-E was supposed to rendezvous with is named USS Archer, after Capt Archer. I'm not saying Jonathan Archer and his crew did not exist in the original timeline. I'm saying that had the effects of the Borg, Future Guy, Na' Kuhl and the Sphere Builders not polluted the timestream by trying to rewrite it in their favor. Archer and the crew of the NX-01 probably led an uneventful tour through space. They certainly wouldn't be getting visits from Daniels in the 29th century about how important their mission was every couple of months.


    The evidence is almost conclusive that ENT occurs in an altered timeline different from the original. I try to detail things out as simply as i can. When dealing with time travel and it's effects it can get very confusing. But i've given episodes and movies where things occurred and evidence can be gathered.
     
  5. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Brannon Braga himself at the time said that Enterprise happens in an alternate timeline, created by the events in First Contact. And that works fine for me. I'd even go so far that nuTrek is the continuation of the NX-01 timeline, which would explain a lot of the differences that were there even before Nero screwed up the timeline. The question is, which timeline were Nero and Spock Prime from? Did Romulus really blew up in "our" timeline or did it happen in the alternate Enterprise timeline?
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    ^Have you got a link to that quote? I've heard it a few times, but never from the source.
     
  7. MickJo1701

    MickJo1701 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Agreed, I really have no issues whatsoever with the retcon of bringing an earlier Enterprise into the timeline or its design lineage.
     
  8. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    That was about ten years ago, I don't remember where it had originally been reported ... but people used to discuss it quite a bit in this forum.
     
  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I hate to be 'That guy', but maybe you're overthinking this a bit?

    Star Trek didn't adopt the 'Going back in time creates an alternate timeline' theory until the Abrams movies, until then going back in time and changing things always deleted the original timeline. Any inconsistency is due to episodes being written by different writers with different intentions.

    Trying to make the ST timeline tidy is a fool's errand.
     
  10. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    It makes you go insane like Braxton. ;)

    Though I'm still of the opinion that the NuTrek universe was an alternate timeline long before Nero arrived in it. Too much is different even before.
     
  11. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    ^ another episode to remember is TNG Paralells. It confirmed a multi verse existed in star trek. Where variations of reality existed. In comics parallel worlds are create by making different decisions, time travel effects, and or things not working out the way they did in the timeline we follow. Such as the two Ent-D's where Riker was captain but Picafs was killed in BOBW, and another where Captain Riker failed at BOBW and the Borg won and Riker refused to go back to his universe

    If you tried to keep it all straight. Every time travel incursion or every variation of history (like Picars saying FC with the Klngons led to decades of war but with ENT we never saw Archer engage in a war after FC with ghe Klingons. You would go mad. Thing is this can be very confusing even in comic book world. What most writers do is never dwell on the fact they've created parallel worlds. Once back in their correct time no matter what time effects may have happened. That timeline is treated like it has always BEEN the original. Until DC or Marvel feels like doing a big epic like Crisis on Infinite Earth's, Infinite Crisis or Countdown to destruction, there is never an explanation for the variations. Partially explains how so many different writers can tackle different comic characters and yet not all their stories match up in one continuous timeline.
     
  12. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    To be fair the "decades of war" bit can be easily explained as a cold war with the Klingons engaging Earth/Federation forces in minor engagements when expedient. Heck Duras the Lame attacked Archer in Earth's solar system one time. You'd think -that- would have lasting consequences on the attitude towards Klingons. I'd be pissed as hell if Russian forces attacked a US ship in Chesapeake Bay.
     
  13. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    The 'Alternate Timeline' thing could work.

    Remember the Fake Dauntless in Voyager was NX-01-A

    Maybe before the Ent-E went back in time, the first NX ship was called Dauntless,after then, butterflies and what not, it became Enterprise.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    ^ Since "Hope and Fear" aired before ENT even existed as a series (thus before the NX-01 Enterprise was ever thought of), I don't think there could be a connection as far as registry numbers go. It's a coincidence, nothing more.
     
  15. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Location:
    The Pyxis Unity
    For my own part, I've never really agreed with the "FC altered the timeline theory" for purposes of storytelling. I'm not a huge fan of "Regeneration" and I'm inclined to think it was just an excuse on the part of the producers to justify potential continuity issues by having the Borg on the show. By the same token, I also disagree with the concept of having a "temporal police" as shown in eps like "Relativity." It makes no sense to me personally, and I wouldn't trust even the good guys with that level of technology. :p
     
  16. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    That's the way I see it. NX-01's design is based on Cochrane's recollections of the 1701-E, and this changes quite a bit of stuff in the early days of Starfleet.
     
  17. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Cochrane saw the silhouette of the ship through a telescope while being anything but totally sober. Given that he broke the warp barrier, met guys from the future who told him about a bright future and friggin cyborg and then met aliens I doubt he has a precise memory of the shape of the E.
    I also don't see much of a similarity between the sleak, arrow-like E and the NX-01.
     
  18. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Location:
    The Denorios Belt
    Nor do I. Aside from color, they don't look anything alike to me.

    Both First Contact and Enterprise were released before ST09. The alternate-universe-time-travel thing was invented as a way to appease fans over the reboot (and I think it's obvious now that it's an outright reboot). It's silly to go and apply it to all time travel we've seen in Star Trek before, which was always traveling back and altering/restoring one timeline.
     
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    ^I think if it was an outright reboot, they'd never have gone to the lengths they did to point out how and why events unfolded diffetently to how they had in the original timeline.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    ^
    Nah, the NuTrek verse was alternate way before Nero showed up in it. Just way too many things are different in it. The loose tie was just thrown in as a transparent attempt to keep the old guard fans happy.