Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by KalEl, Oct 9, 2012.
Loved the series, loved the movie.
Again, I gotta ask: what makes you think the viewing public ever could have been large enough to sustain the show?
I mean, I would have loved to see the other four seasons of Carnivale, but I freely acknowledge that it was a highly obscure show that required very high budgets, and I certainly don't keep railing against the execs that canned it nearly a decade later.
Lots of good TV series are cut off before their time, and everyone has shows and movies they wish had gained wider audiences. But the unceasing howling of many Firefly fans makes me wonder if they aren't subconsciously compensating for something - say, a nagging feeling that, despite its tremendous stylistic appeal to some, the show really wasn't that good - the writing was glib, the characters thin, and the larger storytelling context practically nonexistent.
^ The execs at FOX greenlit Firefly because they wanted another Joss Whedon show. They didn't understand the premise of the series when Joss pitched it to them, but greenlit it anyway. They were expecting his name alone to get them ratings, and when that didn't happen, they used the ratings as an excuse to get rid of their 'greed-fueled misstep'.
There's no guarantee that the series would've succeeded and been longer-lasting if it had aired on a network other than FOX, but the execs who were there at the time had no business greenlighting the series in the first place.
The converse of this statement is that Fox has an good record for greenlighting good shows. I can't think of any programs from the American CW or CBS offhand that I'd be interested in watching.
Some TV series that are currently running that I watch when I can:
Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Homeland, Boardwalk Empire.
There's an argument that the since the last decade we've entered a golden age of television (with since concluded shows like the Sopranos and the Wire being chief among these). I thnk it's a pretty tenable argument.
A golden age of television but not a golden age of science fiction. Not that there hasn't been some greats, BSG.. but it's sparse and the axe constantly falls.
Joss was under contract to produce new series for Fox and all Fox did was ot buy one of his series. He was given plenty of money to make the series and it got cancelled because it failed to produce the ratings needed to survive. IT should be noted that John Doe the show on right after Firefly had double Firefly's ratings and was also cancelled.
And lord knows there were some very upset John Doe fans at the time. I have no idea if there are still John Doe fans, though.
True enough. I'd agree that the 1990s were a much better decade for sci-fi TV, and that one of the best sci-fi shows of the last decade is one that only lasted fourteen episodes says something about the health of the genre.
Although Farscape had most of its seasons in the 2000s, so there is that.
I've recently finished Andromeda S1, and I think it's pretty damned good overall (Yes, I realize depending upon who you talk to, it falls apart anywhere from S1 - S4, just like popular opinion seems to be for Earth:Final COnflict, but, I'll deal with that when I get there). But, S1, and the few S2 episodes I've seen are pretty good.
I don't know what to say about tV in general, really. The only shows that still produce new episodes that I watch on a regular basis are: Pawn Stars, Family Guy, South Park, Big bang theory, Young Justice and Arrow (it just started, and my interest may not last, but I'm liking it so far). Two other shows I really liked ended recently (Eureka and House), and Smallville ended last year (although I was really bad about following it the last 2 seasons, I pretty much just watched them on dVD). I just don't see anything else really interesting. Most of the stuff I watch besides what I listed is old stuff, or stuff I like but don't follow every week (like warehouse 13 and resturant Impossible). I'm a nerd, so my tastes are different than the average viewer (Sci Fi and superhero shows/cartoons are some of my favorite stuff), and to me most new TV just isn't interesting. The ninties/early 2000's were great, now there isn't a lot for me to watch. I really don't want to see a show about Hal from Malcom in the Middle as a drug dealer, or a show about 1960's advertising agents.
There are some good shows, but overall TV today is definately inferior to what it was years ago. I sound like some old guy complaining about the kids today (I'm 21).
No, it's less to your tastes. Yes, there is a difference.
Well, I guess you're right. I don't think every TV show I don't watch is bad, a lot of it is just not for me. That said, nowadays there are shows like Hardcore Pawn, Toddlers and Tiaras, etc that are just horrible, and because of that I would say that in some ways TV today is inferior, and not just because of my tastes (not that there weren't horrible shows back then), but your general point is probably right.
His general point may be similar to mine, in that calling TV of recent years the golden age of television -as much a strong period for American TV as the 1970s was for American cinema - is not exactly a minority opinion among TV critics.
Even if one finds all the TV one watches today to be not that great (which like, fair enough - and you don't seem to be watching anything I'm watching, while I'm not watching anything you're watching), there's still that critical consensus to deal with.
Of course, most of these American dramas have been on cable, which means they've been much less watched than network shows in the US... so there's also that.
I watched Andromeda in first run.
Well... at least until somewhere in the middle of season two. That show went downhill sharply after RHW left, believe me, which is why I can't really mention it as an example of a 'good' space opera show... but like you, I did really enjoy the first season, have fond memories of it, and am thus looking forward to RHW's Defender, assuming it ever materializes.
Serenity was great, I really, really did enjoy it. Worth the lone trek to the cinema to see it.
Firefly... just didn't seem to gel for me. I liked the premise, the characters, the stories, but something was just lacking.
I'm really not sure what it was. The movie felt like a real fun ride, I guess it had to be since it was make or break for a continuation of the series, or a last gasp, I can't remember which. But the tv show just seemed to sit around, bask in how cool it was sure that it was and didn't go anywhere.
My own opinion of course, not the prevailing one on the internet for sure
Serenity was mainly about wrapping up loose storylines and a thank you to the fans.. there may have been slight hopes it would be successful enough to get the show picked up but that ship has sailed way before Serenity had been filmed.
I was in love with the design elements of Firefly and I still watch it for that.
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