Firefly ep by ep; rewatch and reviews

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by saturn5, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

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    Okay, let's dispense with the critiquing of saturn5's formatting issues and stick to the subject of the episodes reviewed / discussed.


    And to get back on topic, here's the screen cap of Han making his appearance in "Heart of Gold" :D
     

    Attached Files:

  2. D Man

    D Man Commodore Commodore

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    "Heart of Gold" has what I think is Firefly's funniest line ever, when they're discussing tactics and Wash acts like he knows what's going on with his super serious "Three point...four hour...should do it." :lol:
     
  3. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Note that when Mal kisses Nandi he pauses for a moment, she asks him what he's doing and he says something "like he's waiting for something." Obviously, he's waiting for a "reaction" from the "goodnight kiss" he got from Yosaffbridge in her first episode.
     
  4. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    [whisper] I'm not entirely sure saturn5 is a 'he' [/whisper]
     
  5. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well leaving my gender issues aside for one moment CC does have a lesbian scene in the movie The Groomsman I belive, anyone ever seen it?
    And when I try to preview my posts it just screws them up royally! Only one more to go anyway
     
    OBJECTS IN SPACE

    The good;
    All of it, very, very good, especially love the opening of Summer as she prowls around the ship listening to everyone's thoughts, the character of Jubal Early, the crew's meeting to discuss River and her plan is inspired.
     
    The bad;
    River's reluctance to use firearms to dispose of Early seems a little strange, she's never seemed to have any reservations before. Plus shooting him would be a lot more humane than leaving him to suffocate?
     
    Best line;
    Simon; "My sisters a ship, we had a complicated childhood"
    plus
    Mal; "If I wanted medical jargon I'd talk to a doctor"
    Simon; "You ARE talking to a doctor"
    and
    Simon; "Come on out Summer, the nice man wants to kidnap you"

    Packing heat;
    River get's her hands on Jayne's Desert Eagle 44. Magnum (which dwarfs her), possibly because she senses the impending threat of Early. Jayne says it won't penetrate the ship's hull, that not even Vera could do that. Early has a 'finely crafted pistol' but it seems to be a pure prop gun rather than any contemporary firearm. On his commentary Joss says he doesn't like guns but Buffy aside you'd be hard put to accept that to judge by his shows/films.
    Jayne boasts about once hitting a man at 500yrds with a bent scope (Patience's men in Serenity?)

    Kinky dinky;
    Early threatens to rape Kaylee to get her co-operation. We take it that when he talks of giving Kaylee and 'present' and ridding her off a 'problem' he means River but maybe he takes her as a virgin and is telling her they're going to have sex? River observes he's all about "Power, control, pain'
    River voyeuristically 'mindrops' on Wash and Zoe getting kissy on the bridge (aside from Homer and Marge they seem to be the most sexually active married couple ever). Topless Simon for the straight girls and sly boys (Joss admits he doesn't mind giving his audience some cheesecake) plus him playing footsie with Kaylee. He also relates the story of some youthful streaking to celebrate his graduation as a surgeon.
    Book is celibate but avoids the question of masturbation.
     
    Notches on the Serenity bedpost; we don't know what happens between Kaylee and Early after he ties her up but I don't think so. She also relates a possible story about bedding a 14 year old 'genetic experiment' but again, unconfirmed.

    Inarra;3+1 possible, Atherton.
    Wash; 1-the missus
    Zoe; 1-the hubby
    Kaylee;1-Bester
    Jayne; 1-at least 1 Heart of Gold whore and possibly many others
    Mal; 1-Nandi

    Capt subtext;
    Mal says that he's perfectly fine with Kaylee never having killed anyone, he wants to keep her the one sweet and innocent thing in his life. Early's fate, left hanging in space with an uncertain future is a metaphor for the series itself.
    When Jayne threatens that he and Wash will 'Go somewhere' over his teasing Wash says he hopes it's somewhere with candlelight.

    How'd they get away with that?
    Early threatening Kaylee is hard to watch as is his pistol whipping Inara across the face. Early licks the ship? Is he descended from Benton Fraser RCMP?

    Total Serenity crew; 9-
    Mal, Zoe, Jayne, Wash, Kaylee, Inarra, Simon, River, Book

    Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
    We expect Book to tell the truth about being knocked out but he actually lies. We think Jayne is reaching his arsenal when he pulls the curtain back but actually he's just grabbing a blanket. Kaylee actually gives in, surrenders to Early and let's him tie her up, betraying River to him.

    Whedon cliches;
    Devoted siblings, haunted charismatic leading man. Teenage girls with superpowers. Hookers. Babbling insane girls with truth in their madness. Fake cockneys. Misguided religious zealots. Numbered t-shirts. Girls with botanical names (Willow, Saffron, Jasmine). Absent fathers. Clever use of extensive flashbacks. Women in boxes. Misogynists who get what's coming to them.

    Bondage; Kaylee tied up by Early
    Mal; 2
    River; 1
    Simon; 1
    River; 1
    Jayne; 1
    Wash; 1
    Kaylee; 1

    Knocked out; Book and Mal by Early
    Book; 3
    Simon; 2
    Kaylee; 1
    Jayne;3
    Mal; 3
    Wash; 1
    Inara; 1
    Zoe; 1
    River; 1

    Women good/men bad;
    Early questions why men are physically stronger yet women have the children?

    Kills; Mal kills Early (or does he? Put him down as a possible)
    Mal; 17-plus one possible, Jubal Early
    Zoe; 17-
    Jayne; 16-
    Wash; 2
    River; 3
     
    Happy high-class hookers in Space;
    Early exclaims "I'll be a son of a whore"

    Know the face?
    Richard Brooks a familar face for all Law&Order fans (until his replacement by Mrs Gere and then Kate Lochley) and truly excellent here in a role where he really plays against type.

    Alliance good or bad?;
     
     
    Fanfic;
    Plenty about the future adventures of Jubal Early. Amongst the means for his survival are;
    1) Venting air from his spacesuit to propel him back to his own ship
    2) Boosting the power of his magnetic shoes in order to attract him back to it
    3) Remote control of his own ship once Serenity is out of sensor range (it does seem to fly off under some form of direction)
    4) Firing his gun to use the recoil to direct himself
    5) Picked up by the blue gloves who are also trailing Serenity
    Unfortunately some include him making good on his threats to Kaylee.
     
    Missing scenes; or deleted scenes in this case
    1. Scene where we see Zoe and Mal being picked up by the rescue ships after the battle of Serenity. Very graphic with the ground littered with corpses and Zoe in particular looking as though she's on her last legs. It's a powerful scene but if they had left it in it would have detracted from Mal's 'loss of faith' moment in the pilot.
    2. Zoe tells Simon about the battle of Serenity in all it's gory detail, 500,000 killed in less than 2 months. What makes this more interesting is that she states that the Browncoats leaders left them to rot on the battlefield for a week, they resent the Independents High Command as well as the Alliance.
    3. Well I guess I owe Alan Tudyk an apology, there IS an incestuous subtext between Simon and River (at least on River's part) he didn't just make it up out of the blue in his commentary for War Stories. It's all actually quite innocent, like a little girl playing at weddings and casting her father or brother as the groom. She accuses Saffron of being a thief, the crew think she means snaffling the food but she actually means more than that. Mal's speech to Saffron about standing up for herself shows his attitude towards women and gives her the idea of how to hoodwink him. This scene also explains why Summer Glau had no lines in the whole of Our Mrs Reynolds.
    4. Inara announces she's leaving, excised because of the crazy order in which the show was shown so as to make more sense.

     
    Firefly speak;
    Gorram=goddam.
    Weak tea=not good
    Back birth=idiot
    Companion=high class courtesan
    Gengish=competent
    Doh-ma=understand/understood?
    Rutting=bloody (or perhaps 'fraking'?)
    Chin-cha-da=hell
    Purple belly=officious bureaucrat
    Ta-gow=Oh god!
    Won-gwa-pee= to urinate or defecate
    Gosa=excrement
    Tien-sha-duh=rubbish
    Los-soh-ret=crap
    Dien-dyododo-chowen=bastard
    Wah=what the hell?
    Mah song=quickly
    Jin-seen-yung=idiot
    Nu-shu-quong=nice going
    Mai-hong=hello
    Sheinou-niou=no good
    Mei, mei=little sister
    Niou-se=lame
    Hey-shu-peegou=dumbass
    Moon brain=inbred?
    Jus-sa-gran=dupes/suckers
    Swa-shi=petty, small time
    Trim=sex
    Roller=tank or armoured vehicle
    Jon-su=bitch/hardass
    Wetware=smuggled organs
    Sly=gay
    Drops=narcotics
    Fa-ta-bien=impossible/nonsense

    Shot; Simon shot
    Mal; 2-
    Kaylee;1-
    Jayne;3-
    Book;1-
    Wash;1-
    Simon; 1-

    Crew injured;
    Mal gets a beating as does Simon again, Book get's a sore head. Inara get's a split lip from her pistol-whipping.
     
    Reminds me off;
    I guess I don't have to say Bobby Fett right down to his suit, gun and ship because Joss admits it in the commentary. Early threatening Kaylee reminds me of Glory and Tara in Tough Love.
    Early's remark of " Maybe I've always been here?" is very The Shining.

    Questions and observations;
    I had thought it was stupid that Serenity had controls allowing someone to seal the crew into their cabins from the outside but it was pointed out if the ship was depressurised they would need to be able to seal off each compartment. Note Kayleigh is the only one not to have any hidden thoughts for River to read, she's totally open. Book's thoughts make you wonder if he was previously a cop or judge? As early observes, "That's not a Shepherd" Jayne appears to cook pancakes. Note when River has the gun it's Kaylee who backs away most having seen what she's capable off. The crew still don't know about Jayne's betrayal on Ariel.
    Mal sure does love his double negatives when talking. Wash seems to delight in teasing Jayne although you'd wonder if he'd be quite so brave without Zoe to back him up? He also thinks telepathy is science fiction even when he's on a spaceship, very postmodern.
    It appears people eat horses in the future. Early is the kind of interesting recurring villain the series sorely needs. Unfortunately this is the final ep.

    Marks out of 10; 9/10, nice to see the series go out on a high
     
  6. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, love that one, Wash really is the Joxer to Zoe's Xena.:) But actually I think they're a lovely couple and compliment each other well
     
  7. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    This is... "kinky" :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

    I...

    I...

    Wha.....?!?!?!?!?!

    Anyway. No, his "present" that he's taking River away. He threatens her with rape to convince her to help him, if she doesn't help him he's going to rape her to death! "You'll die crying/weaping."

    Anyway, you're not exactly "done" yet. You've still got the movie "Serenity" to watch which wraps the series up.... Sorta.

    I think this one gets mis-interpreted a lot. "If wishes were horses..." is a common expression meaning that "if wishes were as plentiful as horses we could have whatever we want." Becuase one could wish for them! If wishes were horses they'd all be eating steak because they could wish for money/steak itself. We know they have cows and cows that're used for meat. We actualy see them transport cattle for this very purpose in the fourth or fith episode. (Safe.)

    I've never taken it to mean they "eat horses."
     
  8. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think trying to figure out Jubal Early's 'logic' such as it is does not follow any rules.
    As for the horses, remember the 'good dogs' in Serenity; the ep?
     
  9. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Just want to say I liked these reviews for the most part, even some of the statistics, I particularly thought the kill count was interesting.


    But way overboard with all the fanfic/fetish stuff. It's like, weird, that you know all about that.


    I loved the series and I loved Serenity regardless of the many complaints against it. You should review the movie.
     
  10. Mal

    Mal Commodore Commodore

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    absolutely perfect formatting :techman: see, now when you review Serenity (the movie, not the pilot), you'll have no complaints from us... at least as to the formatting ;)


    :guffaw:

    i'm not sure you experienced this (since it wasn't in your review), but i remember the first time i watched the show, i thought we had some really "high-concept" thing (like Brannon Braga high concept), and River had actually turned into the ship! needless to say, i felt very silly after :p

    i'm gonna go with Trekker4747 with this one:

    i don't know where exactly you come from saturn5, but i'm pretty sure most normal people around these parts don't consider rape-to-the-death to be kinky :eek:

    are you a fan of this fic :confused:
     
    that's very Kosh.

    ummm

    you would think a DS9 fan would already know that.

    Thanks for reviewing the series. Interesting to see a Buffy fan's perspective on the whole thing. Looking forward to your review of the movie.

    keep flying.
     
  11. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

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    Australia
    I came to Firefly after having already lived, loved, and rewatched Buffy and Angel religiously. So I was already a dyed in the wool Joss Whedon fan. I decided to pick up the DVD of Firefly one day on a whim (I missed the original broadcast). It was cheap so I figured 'why not'? I fell in love with this show, its universe, and its rich characters straight away. Firefly was the little show that couldn't...as far as the networks were concerned. But it most certainly could. What other show has such a fervent fanbase despite its half season, years after the fact?

    I can only imagine the pain you guys who saw it first time around felt. I knew going in that I was only going to get half a season of episodes, and one movie, with these characters, so I knew to make every little moment last, and savour it all. FOX makes me so angry. I would have loved to see more of this universe. I was pissed when Angel was cancelled. Really pissed. The show had just reinvented itself, and was getting higher ratings, and yet being produced on a lower budget. What gives? I was pissed when Enterprise was cancelled, just when it was getting good. It was probably even worse in Firefly's case. At least Angel and ENT got five and four seasons respectively. These days, for a genre show, that's a pretty decent run. Firefly never had a goddamn chance on network TV. It should have been on cable or Sci Fi from the start. I can't believe Joss came crawling back to TV after what FOX did to him. At least the suits gave Dollhouse a second season, not wanting to repeat the mistake they made with Angel and Firefly.

    Glad you enjoyed the show, Saturn, and I look forward to seeing what you think of the film. Dollhouse or Dr Horrible review thread next up? ;)
     
  12. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I came to Firefly a few years ago when the DM at my game played the first episode (not all of the players showed up so we couldn't play as we needed some of them for the storyline we were in) and the second episode. Afterwards he lent me the first disc for me to finish. (The other discs had been circulating in the group for a while so I guess it was my turn.)

    It was like being handed a pamphlet from a cultist in an airport lobby, or a freebie from a dealer. The first episode alone piqued my interest and by the end of the first disc I was hooked and got my own set, returning the disc to my DM at our next session. Watched through the series and showed the first episode to one of my friends and he got hooked after the first epiosde. Remarking how impressed he was at the pilot and utterly confused as to why it wasn't aired first.

    I'd really go out on a limb and say "Serenity" is one of the better pilots in modern television in terms of setting up the characters and the universe. There's just something about the way the music and scenery works to set everything up. What I liked esp. is the scene between Inara with her client and the music that plays from sort-of a contemporary type-music to a much "rougher" and Asian-twangy beat as we transition to the poor-section of the planet, the Eavesdown Docks. Just something about that scene all by itself that sets up the tone of the entire series quite nicely. And as odd as it is and as much as I rack, and still rack, by brain trying to make it jive the Western Sci-Fi stuff actualy kind of works!

    It doesn't make any damn sense that all of the sudden men who pilot space-ships and fly across the galaxy/a large solar sytsem are wearing dusters, riding horses, carrying old-west looking guns but it just somehow all worked. And I loved the mixing for Chinese and English (even though it makes little sense) and the "Firefly Speak" in terms of curses and slang. God, this was such a good show. And right now we would've just had the series finale and/or possibly even entering the final season.

    God, what a show this could've been. It says something when the entire first season is well made and has only one or two "weak" episodes and only weak in terms of "not as good as the best episodes."

    God. Fuck you Fox!
     
  13. Sakrysta

    Sakrysta Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Location:
    Sakrysta
    I was on board with Firefly from the beginning. I cancelled my cable the summer before Firefly aired, but I got my parents to tape the show for me. Unlike a lot of folks, in my area the show was never pre-empted by the World Series, and I got every aired episode on tape. I downloaded the additional episodes from Hello, Cowgirl before the DVD set was released, along with all the others, and watched them over and over on my computer & VHS tapes until the DVDs finally came out. Then there was the movie to look forward to. We had a huge countdown thread here in anticipation of Serenity, and it was SO much fun. Dragon*Con 2004 was absolutely unbelievable, lousy with Browncoats everywhere.

    It was an amazing ride of fandom to go through - all for the love of this little show. It brought so many people together, facilitated so many friendships, boosted the careers of some truly talented and worthy performers. There aren't many fandoms that had such a pervasive influence, and none that did it on the basis of half a season of TV. Firefly is, in a word, SHINY. :techman:
     
  14. Mal

    Mal Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
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    it was like a cult.

    i remember, i saw the first 1 minute of The Train Job, which was the first episode to air. saw some weirdo get thrown out a digital window. thought this looks like bullshit, turned off the TV, and went out.

    and that would have been that.

    except a friend was hosting the episodes on her FTP server, and after four or five of them had aired, she promised me that they were awesome, and told me that i should really just give the show a try.

    so i did. and man, nothing has ever been the same again.

    i must be the only one who is eternally grateful to FOX for giving us firefly. i can't imagine any of the other networks even giving it a second look.

    14 episodes of heaven is better than no heaven.
     
  15. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Jul 16, 2001
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Fox dicked around with the schedule. "The Train Job" was the first episode to air and, obviously, it didn't impress you on first viewing. Had they shown Serenity first it likely would've won you over. Not to mention airing the episodes out of order and the premeptions they just didn't give the show a chance.

    But, really, the biggest dick-move was not airing the damn pilot first!
     
  16. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
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    Thanks everyone, you're too kind. I'm going to review Dollhouse s2 and then that'll be it.:)

    As for the fanfic/fetish stuff no I'm not 'into it' per se but I do find it fascinating, what people really feel free to confess to behind the anonymity of the internet. As part of my degree we read a psychologist called Brett Khar who writes on sexual fantasies (his book is called 'Who's been sleeping in your head?') and he actually has websites. http://www.brettkahr.com/ & www.sexualfantasyproject.com for people to post their sexual fantasies on. He should have saved himself the trouble and just read some internet adultfic. I put the Kaylee/Jubal stuff in Kiny Dinky as we don't know if anything actually happened and it seemed the best place for it, maybe I should have put it in Jeez?

    I'd like to accept your praise for the formatting but truth be told I've no idea what happened:confused:

    I have to confess what made me want to do this in the first place was the incredible fandom Firefly has for such a shortlived series, it intrigued me

    SERENITY; the movie

    The good;
    Obviously benefits from a greater budget especially in the lab scenes. Cool opening tracking shot. Love River and Zoe trading their little look during the robbery and love River's goggles. Stonking great spaceship battles in a series where we haven't seen that before. The scene where they slip through the Reaver fleet is truly creepy.

    The bad;

    Mal's getting an innoculation at the start. Never seen that before but it neatly informs us that Simon is a doctor. Disappointing that we get no Saffron or Jubal Early but you can't have everything.

    Best line;
    Mal; "If I'm not back in an hour come rescue me"
    Zoe; "And risk MY ship?"
    plus
    Simon; (to River who has just survived a Reaver attack, massive gunfight and crash) "Are you ok?"
    River; "I swallowed a bug"
    and
    Mal; "You want to be in charge?"
    Jayne; "Yeah"
    Mal; "Well...you can't!"

    Packing heat
    ;
    Serenity finally gets some exterior arnament in the form of Book's Bofors like flak-gun. Maybe the Alliance allowed private citizens to own what weapons they like but forbade the arming of ships themselves? Inara uses some form of Companion bow and arrow, as Joss observes, very Wonder Woman. Jayne doesn't use Vera instead having an H+K G36 and his grenades. Mal has an Armalite AR-18 which he later gives to Zoe, most other crew use MP5Ks plus Zoe's Mossberg shotgun.

    Kinky dinky
    ;
    River voyeuristically watches her brother and Kaylee having sex. Maybe the subtexters did have a point? Kaylee appears to have been using a self-pleasuring device which horrifies Mal (who seems to like to think of Kaylee almost as his virgin daughter) but intrigues Jayne. The crew still like to eavesdrop on Mal and Inara for gossip/thrills. Mal cross dresses again, disguising himself in a companion's dress and may have gone through Inara's clothes (for her scent or to try them on?)
     
    Notches on the Serenity bedpost; Simon and Kaylee, at last

    Inarra;3+1 possible, Atherton.
    Wash; 1-the missus
    Zoe; 1-the hubby
    Kaylee;2-Bester, Simon
    Jayne; 1-at least 1 Heart of Gold whore and possibly many others
    Mal; 1-Nandi
    Simon; 1-Kaylee


    Capt subtext
    ;
    Note River actually sniffs Inara's bed in Kaylee's video. Mal considers Fanty 'pretty'.

    How'd they get away with that?
    All and everything the Reavers do! The slow sword impalement is also nasty as is desecrating the dead by strapping them to Serenity, even Book.

    Total Serenity crew
    ; 7- When we meet the crew Inara and Book are no longer part of it (the ship and crew are literally and figuratively falling apart). Inara rejoins but Book and Wash die. River now takes Wash's place as the co-pilot of Serenity.
    Mal, Zoe, Jayne, Kaylee, Inarra, Simon, River,

    Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
    Facing the Reavers our heroes bravely run away. Indeed in the end they leave it to the Alliance troops to fight them, THEY save the day. Amazingly the villain actually survives. Mal pushes the guy off the mule and leaves him to the Reavers. We never do get to hear Book's story. Mal the noble hero never hesitates to shoot unarmed people.

    Whedon cliches
    ;
    Devoted siblings, haunted charismatic leading man. Teenage girls with superpowers. Hookers. Babbling insane girls with truth in their madness. Fake cockneys. Misguided religious zealots. Numbered t-shirts. Girls with botanical names (Willow, Saffron, Jasmine). Absent fathers. Clever use of extensive flashbacks. Women in boxes. Misogynists who get what's coming to them. Sex-bots. People with subliminal triggers.

    Bondage
    ; River in cuffs
    Mal; 2
    River; 2
    Simon; 1
    River; 2
    Jayne; 1
    Wash; 1
    Kaylee; 1

    Knocked out
    ; Jayne and Simon knocked out by River, River knocked out by Simon's magic word
    Book; 3
    Simon; 3
    Kaylee; 1
    Jayne;4
    Mal; 3
    Wash; 1
    Inara; 1
    Zoe; 1
    River; 2

     
    Kills; Inara really participates in the fight for the first time. I'll give Jayne and Zoe 10 Reavers each, River 30 and everyone else 5. Amazingly Mal only kills 2 people.
    Mal; 19-plus one possible, Jubal Early
    Zoe; 27-
    Jayne; 26-
    Wash; 2
    River; 33
    Simon; 5
    Kaylee; 5
    Inara; 5
     
    Happy high-class hookers in Space
    ;
    Inara is working as an instructor at a companion training school which must be the best job EVER!
     
    Whedon alumni- Joss likes to reuse the same actors in his series, let's count up their appearances (let me know if I miss any)
    1. Nathan Fillon-3; Firefly, Caleb in S7 of Buffy and Dr Horrible
    2. Gina Torres-2; Firefly and Jasmine in S4 of Angel
    3. Alan Tudyk-2; Firefly and the villainous/heroic(?) Alpha in Dollhouse (haven't seen season 2 so don't spoil it for me)
    4. Adam Baldwin-2; Firefly and Marcus Hamilton in S5 of Angel
    5. Summer Glau-3; Firefly, Dollhouse and the prima ballerina in the LEGENDARY S4 Angel ep 'Waiting in the wings'.
    6. Carlos Jacott-3; The Fed in Firefly, Ken in the 'Anne' ep of Buffy and Richard Straley in 'The Bachelor Party' ep of Angel.
    7. Andy Umberger;3-the captain of the Dortmunder in Firefly, D'Hoffryn in Buffy, the psychic surgeon in the Angel ep 'I fall to pieces'.
    8. Mark Shepherd;2-Badger in Firefly and later turns up as one of Ballard's FBI colleagues in Dollhouse. Also a BSG alumni.
    9. Jeff Rickets;3- one of the blue handed men in Firefly and Weatherby on Buffy/Angel plus the spiderdemon at the end of Angel season 4
    10. Gregg Henry; 2- he's one of those faces that occur time and again in TV/movies, the Sherrif in The Train Job and he later recurrs in the Dollhouse ep 'Ghost', one of my favourite eps of season 1.
    11. Christina Hendricks; 2-Saffron in Firefly and a bar maid in the Angel ep 'The Prodigal'. She'll later star in Mad Men with Whedonverse alumni Vincent Kartheiser.
    12. Ira Steck; 2-The intern here and the vamp Buffy fights in 'Lies my parents told me'.
    13. Michael Nagy; 3-one of the hospital staff here, the Rat Pack vamp Jay-Don in the Angel ep 'The Shroud of Rahmon' and Alfonse (one of vampWillow's lackeys) in the Buffy ep Dopplegangland.
    14. Cathy Cohen; 2-the admitting nurse here and the estate agent who hits on cool Xander in the Buffy ep The Replacement.
    15. Jonathon Woodward; 3-as observed in the commentary, a hatrick (but not the only one), the vamp Holden Webster whom Buffy slays in 'Lies my parents told me', the traitorous Knox in season 5 of Angel and now Tracey in Firefly, each character seeming good but betraying everyone at the end.
    So, 15 in total

    Alliance good or bad?;
    In this case Alliance bad but well intentioned. They wanted to create a society without violence which seems laudable but in the end turns into a nightmare. In the end the Alliance troops defeat the Reavers, saving the crew and rebuilding the Serenity. Whilst the Alliance seems set to continue it may be very different from now on.
    Mal says the war is long done and Joss comments that he's put it behind him. So when he tells Simon that needling the Alliance is one of the reasons he let's him and River stay is he being truthful?
    Simon really looks the part of the Alliance officer in the beginning. The Operative says that Mal isn't the hero and the Alliance isn't the evil empire. Joss himself remarks that he sees the Alliance as a largely benevolent force.
    So, who would you have sided with in the war? I have to say that Blue Gloves aside I'd lean towards the Alliance.

    Fanfic;
    The continuing adventures of Serenity post-movie obviously popular. One common thread is that with Wash dead Mal now has to choose between Zoe and Inara as his love. Another is the Alliance unravelling and the crew coming to terms that they've created chaos in the universe and actually seeking to create a UN type organisation/Galactic senate.


    Missing scenes
    ;
    Reputedly had the series continued there'd have been an episode where Mal and Zoe are tracked down by a group of ex-Alliance soldiers intent on avenging a war crime that their Browncoat unit committed (like Principal Wood and Spike).
    The deleted scenes are largely unremarkable except for Inara teaching her Companion skills to her young pupils. More of that would have probably made the film more successful at the box office.
     
    Firefly speak;
    Gorram=goddam.
    Weak tea=not good
    Back birth=idiot
    Companion=high class courtesan
    Gengish=competent
    Doh-ma=understand/understood?
    Rutting=bloody (or perhaps 'fraking'?)
    Chin-cha-da=hell
    Purple belly=officious bureaucrat
    Ta-gow=Oh god!
    Won-gwa-pee= to urinate or defecate
    Gosa=excrement
    Tien-sha-duh=rubbish
    Los-soh-ret=crap
    Dien-dyododo-chowen=bastard
    Wah=what the hell?
    Mah song=quickly
    Jin-seen-yung=idiot
    Nu-shu-quong=nice going
    Mai-hong=hello
    Sheinou-niou=no good
    Mei, mei=little sister
    Niou-se=lame
    Hey-shu-peegou=dumbass
    Moon brain=inbred?
    Jus-sa-gran=dupes/suckers
    Swa-shi=petty, small time
    Trim=sex
    Roller=tank or armoured vehicle
    Jon-su=bitch/hardass
    Wetware=smuggled organs
    Sly=gay
    Drops=narcotics
    Fa-ta-bien=impossible/nonsense
     
    Shot;
    Jayne, Mal, Kaylee and Simon all shot
    Mal; 3-
    Kaylee;2-
    Jayne;4-
    Book;1-
    Wash;1-
    Simon; 2-
     
    Crew injured;

    Jayne get's staked in the leg and thumped by River. Mal routinely gets the stuffing beaten out of him.
     
    Reminds me off;
    River spying on Simon and Kaylee having sex reminds me off Dawn who was quite the voyeur with Buffy and Riley. The idea of a world without violence is something Joss reuses from season 4 of Angel. The Reavers are reminiscent of John Carpenter's film Ghosts of Mars. The opening scenes are very BSG whilst one of the guns in the bar fight looks like the ones they used on Babylon 5. The new mule is very Star Wars landspeeder (did they sell the Lassiter to pay for it?). Mal shoots the guy being eaten by the Reavers, very Last of the Mohicans.
    Now of course Miranda (meaning 'most wonderful') is Prospero's daughter in The Tempest. We've already seen Ariel (the wonder of the Alliance?), does this make the Reavers Caliban? "This thing of darkness I acknowledge mine". And of course it was adapted as 'The Forbidden Planet'.
    River's trigger is very like Spike's in Buffy. Alien is referred to again although this is a universe without aliens (The Operative refers to 'Building better worlds' which is the company's motto). Mal quotes The Ancient Mariner. The space battle is very Starship Troopers, Wrath of Khan, Babylon 5 and of course Star Wars. Zoe's assertion that they're not getting out alive is similar to Angel in Not Fade Away. Burning swing is very T2.
     
    Questions and observations;
    So we finally meet some real Reavers (we've only met one pseudo one before in Bushwhacked). But the Serenity crew never confront the Blue-gloves? Note when we see the slaughter at Haven Jayne still takes the time to loot. Who helps Simon rescue River? The Browncoat diehards who were to try and recruit Mal and Zoe if the series had continued? The Mal we see at the beginning is much more like the Mal we see in the pilot than the series. Wash the pilot always seems the last to know everything, he's rather left out.
    The Alliance now use sleek ships. Mal's record shows him to be a captain in the Browncoats which is why Zoe calls him 'sir' which she shouldn't do if he's a sergeant (although if he really did command 2000 men at one point he's actually an acting brigadier). Are the Reavers all gone, did the Alliance wipe them out? Jayne plays the guitar, I wonder if he know's The Hero of Canton?. The Alliance troops have new armour, very Halo like. Jayne points out that of Mal's 30 man platoon he and Zoe were the only survivors, bearing out Zoe's assertion that a hero is someone who gets other people killed and a leader is 'something of a monster' (like ruthless Angel at the end of season 5 and hardass Buffy in season 7). After visiting Ariel River begins to get visibly better. Jayne comes to terms with Simon by offering him his whiskey.

    Marks out of 10
    ; 9/10, very good, if this is the last we see of the crew (and it almost certainly is) this is a fine send off for them.

    So, Firefly? Well, very enjoyable but I'd still say it's my least favourite of Joss' shows. Now of course maybe if it had lasted longer I would think more of it, if Buffy/Angel had only had 14 eps they wouldn't have grown into the great series they were. I think the best way to put it is that Firefly had the potential to be a great series. Interestingly Buffy was a largely unsuccessful film that was transformed into a tremmendously successful TV series with it's own successful spinoff. Firefly was a failed TV series that became a largely successful film.
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  17. Mal

    Mal Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    one aspect i absolutely cannot stand about the movie is Mr. Universe. Now i get it: you simply can't have a scifi movie now-a-days without some hacker-type. granted, but Mr. Universe is completely out of place in our Big Damn Hero's lives. If they had a hacker on their side (and why not?), he should have been living in some out of the way place, or maybe some ex-Alliance type who had joined Book's monastery.

    But no, they got the money for a somewhat famous dude from Numb3rs who they could put in the trailer, and so they gave him a fancy pants role and called it a day. ugh :rolleyes:

    speaking of miscasting

    again, they got money for Chewie to play the Operative and so we didn't get Jubal. now don't get me wrong, I <3 Chewie, especially in Children of Men, but man, just cause you gots the money don't mean you gots to spend it in places that don't matter. Jubal would have rocked!

    the money would have been better spent... on Saffron!

    holy shit, just thought of something: what if they get to Mr. Universe and find he's married to Saffron :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:

    ah, now i see why people write fanfic :)

    eh, i'd give it a 7. at least 4 episodes of firefly were better, including the pilot, which was basically the same length.

    aren't you going to review the last episode :confused::devil::evil:
     
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
    One thing I didn't buy in the film was Mr. Universe's planet - how do you run a broadcast/relay station on a world surrounded by a plasma cloud?

    I also didn't like "mean Mal." I know the way he is in the film is the way Joss wanted to portray him, but the Mal of the series was the one thing Fox's notes got right.
     
  19. saturn5

    saturn5 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Good point, when I saw it I did think Wrath of Khan and Joss confirms that on the commentary. But maybe he used the planets interference to hide and had some way of getting through the static (a short range relay satellite?)
    I think we get nice Mal back at the end but like S5 Angel or S7 Buffy he's in a hard place and must be a hard taskmaster.

    The Mr Universe married to Saffron idea is inspired :lol:although it would have negated the Buffybot spilling the secret concept. If you find/write it let me know
     
  20. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Location:
    Kansas City
    I think the movie muddies things a bit from what the series did but, overall, caps off the universe as a whole nicely, though more movies would've been nice. :(

    I can say that seeing Serenity twice in pre-release screenings was some of the best theater-experiences I've ever had.

    Funny thing to note, in the "blooper real" for the movie there's a scene of Nathan Fillion ad-libing as Mal as they prepare to leave Book's planet. He instructs the crew to but Book "right up front, he's our friend we should honor him!" Funny scene to watch as you can see some members of the cast giggling, most notably Jewel.

    I think the movie muddied a couple aspects of the series. For example at no point in the series does Simon demonstrate that he has the suave and ability to pull off the "Academy" heist we see him pull-off in the opening scene of the movie. The "idea" behind the Reavers seems to have changed some, in the series they seem more mysterious and analogous to how some settlers precieved the Native Americans. Simply as "savages." But "savages" who're also able to operate ships and organize battles, etc. In the movie they're more like Hollywood zombies/monsters.

    Really a lot of the stuff dealing with River and how much Simon "knew" seems pulled out of nowhere but there's likely a season's worth of development missing there.

    Your "injury" report for the movie didn't include how every member of the crew suffers injury during the course of the movie. Mal gets beaten up pretty badly by The Operative, Zoe gets her back slashed open by the Reavers, I believe Jayne gets shot by the Reavers, Wash gets impaled by debris/projectile weaponry from the Reaver ship, Kaylee gets shot by the Reavers, Simon get stabbed/shot by the Reavers. Infact, I think the only ones to come out of the Reaver battle untouced are Inara and River.

    And as much as it sucked to have Book die, Wash dying was even worse. But as much as I hated it I agree with the overall belief there was at the time that killing him made the final battle that much more tense. Because if Wash can be killed out-of-the-blue like that then no one is safe as, again, everyone takes some pretty hefty injury during the final scenes.

    And I wasn't a big fan of Mr. Universe either. I think it would've made a bit more sense to use Badger as an "inside man" or even Patience to help the crew get their goals. It seemed out of place to introduce this guy out of nowhere.

    The movie is good, mostly does what it set out to do, but I in the end it makes me long more for what could've been.