FAULTY - the two worst TOS remastering mistakes

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Mister Atoz, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. Mister Atoz

    Mister Atoz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I have found two bad remastering mistakes so far, and as luck would have it, they are in sister episodes. They are mostly editorial errors, and they are both images depicted on a viewing screen. I'm looking at Blu-Ray Season 2, Doomsday Machine and Immunity Syndrome.

    mistake 1

    Doomsday: Kirk is on the Constellation and is getting his view screen working. Washburn says "Try it now, Captain." Kirk says "Yes I think...What the devil's going on?"

    The error occurs here. In the original version, the cut to the view screen immediately shows the Enterprise firing at the Doomsday cone. That is what Kirk is reacting to.

    In the remastered version, the view screen shows static interference on the screen FIRST, then it fades to the Enterprise and the cone. In the remastered cut, Kirk would not have any reason to say "What the devil's going on?" because he hasn't seen the Enterprise yet. Furthermore, the remastered version shows the screen with only the Enterprise in it, firing phasers, which weakens the logic of Kirk's reaction still further! Then later the cone comes into the screen view. Opinions on this? I think it hurts the scene a lot.

    mistake 2

    In Immunity, just prior to the appearance of the hole in space, Kirk says "scanners on". In the original version, it cuts to the view screen -- stars only. Then later, as you recall, Spock says "I would assume....that." At this point, the hole in space is first shown.

    The error in the remastered version? Kirk says "scanners on" and the hole in space already appears on the screen, a full 18 seconds before it is supposed to appear.

    I would welcome the submission of any other known remastering errors (but not aesthetic "mistakes" in the effects -- unless you feel you must.) Paramount, can you please repair my disks? David? Mike? Lucille? Anyone? ;o)

    thanks

    ~ Mr Atoz
     
  2. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    Having shots of the Enterprise look all cartoony when the rest of the show is live-action.
     
  3. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    The nacelle cap problem. Ughh. They should have gone back and fixed all the shots.
     
  4. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Calling it "remastering" in the first place. Remastering is reorganizing existing elements, not introducing new material.
     
  5. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    Rear endcap ball inconsistency, or front spikes?
     
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mister Atoz points out exactly why it's dangerous to just change shots without examining the context in which those shots appear. That's a different issue than the quality of the replacement shots.
     
  7. Mister Atoz

    Mister Atoz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Yeah, can you please spell out what you mean by Nacelle cap problem?

    thx

    ~ Atoz


     
  8. boobatuba

    boobatuba Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How do you know the sequence of events isn't as follows?

    1. Viewscreen clears - Kirk sees Enterprise attacking weapon and reacts
    2. Viewscreen shorts again back into "search" mode or whatever - camera perspective changes to viewscreen
    3. Viewscreen again clears.

    Calling this a "mistake" doesn't really wash for me. Kirk clearly sees SOMETHING and reacts, so obviously the viewscreen showed something, then fuzzed out again.
     
  9. Mister Atoz

    Mister Atoz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Dear Boobatuba ~

    You can pretend anything you like in terms of what you think Kirk sees on the screen, but the original version has much more impact because it cuts from Kirk looking at the screen in astonishment -- to the screen showing clearly what is happening with the Enterprise in imminent danger. In the new version, the whole thing is fuzzy, mushy, unclear. The new version makes it seem like he's saying "What the devil is going on?" in response to a fuzzy, non-working screen display!

    For a first time viewer of the ep, the whole meaning of the edit has dramatically changed. It's a pretty important cut, too, because it leads up to Kirk ordering Spock to relieve Decker of command.

    regards

    ~ Mr Atoz



     
  10. boobatuba

    boobatuba Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't disagree that the scene is better before the change in what the viewscreen shows. But that's far from it being a "mistake," which is what you're alleging. It's just a different interpretation.

    And, seriously? The few seconds of the viewscreen being fuzzy makes it harder to believe that Kirk would call the Enterprise to find out what's going on and reprimand Decker for putting his ship in danger when he finds out? Umm...he still sees that, regardless of if it's immediately or in a few seconds.

    Is it really so hard to imagine that he says "what the devil's going on" because he makes something out briefly before the screen finally kicks in fully repaired? Why does he say, "Yes, I think..."? Could it possibly be that he's making some adjustments? Could he see the sensor readings of the Enterprise and machine in close proximity on some control panel and then look up to confirm the readings? I think you're picking one too many nits, here.
     
  11. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Commodore Commodore

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    ^
    Perhaps, but choosing to make this change is a bit of an intrusion by the "restorationist" into the role of the writer or director, because altering the subject of the eyeline-match shot alters the narrative, however slightly.
     
  12. boobatuba

    boobatuba Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A bit of an intrusion, sure. I'll agree with that completely.

    A "mistake"? No, I won't go that far.
     
  13. Mister Atoz

    Mister Atoz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Hmmm, interesting discussion! Well, you're entitled to your opinion (and your avatar) Boobatuba, but the remastering team had no right to so significantly change the meaning and impact of that cut. The music score from genius Sol Kaplan tells you exactly what's supposed to be happening -- WHAM!!!! In a microsecond we are whacked by the visual snapshot of the Enterprise at the maw of the cone.

    The remastering denies the visual impact of that cut, and instead puts "video static" where there was none before!!! Call me a purist if you must, but that's some pretty major tampering.


    regards

    ~ Mr Atoz
     
  14. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Commodore Commodore

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    [​IMG]
    FAULTY! FAULTY!
     
  15. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    Now somebody should "'Shop" a pair of silicone implants onto Nomad's casing and caption the image to read, "Falsies! Falsies!!!"

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  16. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Commodore Commodore

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    :lol: Dalek bumps!
     
  17. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    Ooh! Yes! Even better! Great idea!

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  18. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree, Atoz.

    Sorry, but if you change something that was obvious and clear into something that requires fans to come up with a cover, then it's a mistake. Without showing the screen coming up and shorting out again, then it's just fanwank. The original version had the screen come to life and then Kirk saw the image to give him the reaction. There's no time for it to short out and come back. It would have come up too quickly the first time for Kirk to really process what he's seeing to generate that response.

    About a year ago, I made a list on here of all the Doomsday Machine new effects "errors." This was one of the biggest. Others could be open to interpretation, but this one really isn't.

    The other large bit was that I didn't feel the Enterprise would have been towing the Constellation at the start of Act II. There was no time; Kirk never gave the order, he hadn't even started to "get her ready." There was also no reaction to suddenly having the beam cut off; no mention of it nor any reaction to the sudden course change (since they fall over every time there's something big happening). Spock was maintaining distance, but was he dragging the Constellation along or moving off to distract the thing from the wrecked ship?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
  19. Dalen Quaice

    Dalen Quaice Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well this has been my complaint with the recent LA LA Land Soundtrack that was advertised as complete and perfect by the producers. When you change something, you create a unique work. If you edit, and the edit is not exactly where the original edit is placed, then it is not restoration -- it is alteration. To me, a purist, this is unacceptable.

    Another episode that comes to mind is "Court Martial" -- The fade in of the scene where the trial has moved to the bridge of the ship is timed differently - there is a dissolve between the effects and the live action. The timing of the dissolve has been changed and I also think the audio may have been modified somewhat.

    If you complain to CBS, they will send you a coupon off your next DVD/Blu purchase! LOL
     
  20. Mister Atoz

    Mister Atoz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Commander Quaice ~

    Your point is well taken, however as a special fx guy myself, I am well aware that any effects with dissolves cannot be superimposed over old dissolves in the original negative. This happens all the time in the new versions and it's just something we have to accept as part of the remastering. Any new dissolves with effects are going to have to be shifted over to cover the old dissolves.

    If the ORIGINAL original negative of the live action was still available, then the dissolves could be in their original positions. Unfortunately, nobody in 1967 could have imagined the archival value of such source footage, and it long since ended up in Desilu's (or Howard Anderson Cos') waste bin.

    Unfortunate, but for me, the tradeoff was WELL worth it.

    Ssosmcin, I would welcome an opportunity to view your last-year's thread on Doomsday effects errors.

    best

    ~ Mr Atoz


     

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