Farscape or Babylon 5?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by kirk55555, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That someone was rewriting his dialogue. (That is, I don't think S3-S5 represented a change in the workflow on JMS scripts - there were just more of them.)
     
  2. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Babylon 5 season 2 arrived today, and I watched the first two episodes.

    Points of Departure - This was a very good episode. The first thing I noticed is that the CGI looks better this season. The stuff in the first season didn't really bother me, but its interesting to see it evolve.One thing I noticed immediately is that everything seemed determined to totally ruin Delenn's post cacoon appearance. She's on the DVD cover and menu, so I was already spoiled before I even started the DVD, but that wasn't all. The opening actually shows her, so even if you were just watching this on TV in the ninties when it first came out, you would have been spoiled about what she looks like post cacoon. That seems like a stupid decision. I get why she's on the DVD cover/menu, she's a main character and I doubt they cared about spoiling that for a show that came out years ago, but the opening thing seems pretty lame. The end of the last episode of season 1 and all of this episode try to make you want to know what will come out of the cacoon. Even if you pretty much knew that it wouldn't be a monster or something, completely removing any surprise just makes all of the mystery in this episode seem pointless, since I already know what she will look like, even though it doesn't get officially revealed until the next episode.

    Still, it didn't ruin the story or anything. The episode was good. The new Captain seems interesting. The thing about Minbari souls in human bodies is interesting, I bet it will come up again.The prophecy about the enemy also sounds important. This episode definatel;y got me excited for this season.

    Revelations - I'm glad Londo and G'Kar are back, after not being in episode one. It was interesting to learn more about Sheridan, even if his sister seemed like just a way to deliever his backstory. The live draining/healing machine makes a second appearance, I figured it would return. I wonder if it was introduced so that it could be brought back later. Delenn emerging from the cacoon was cool, but like I said above, it was already spoiled by the DVD and the shows opening theme what she would look like, so the weird skin thing didn't fool me at all. I really hope the new president isn't part of this weird conspiracy. The earth politics stuff, while not bad, is usually the least interesting stuff. The Psi Corps connection to the assassination is intriguing. even if it turns out to not be true, I'm sure they're up to something shady. This new enemy seems like it will be big. I'm pretty sure they're connected to the guy helping Londo out, it will be interesting to see what happens.

    Overall, this season has started out well. I don't know if Sheridan will be better than Sinclair, but he seems like a good character. Delenns new condition is interesting, and I really want to know what is going on with this mysterious new enemy.
     
  3. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    It's pretty much the point of having your own show that no one re-writes you.

    Some of us rather enjoy jms dialogue.

    And as I said, Harlan was there.
     
  4. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    Actually that only became a problem with the DVD and widescreen versions. In the original run, the credits originally showed her as Minbari and then changed to her new appearance on episode three.

    [sorry for the double post]
     
  5. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't really think about them changing the opening with later releases, but it makes a lot of sense. I was actually wondering why they hadn't just had a different beginning for the first two episodes, and finding out that they did is cool, even if I wish they had put it on the DVD, just to see (even if the cover already spoils it).
     
  6. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    B5 did their title sequence in house so they could change them when they wanted such as when a rank changed or of course, when Delenn's change was revealed.

    As for the dialog, there's two bits to note. First, and IMO the cause of many instances of dialogue issues was that with only a couple of exceptions, B5 didn't use 'Preveously on Babylon 5 introductions so JMS tried to get what was needed into dialogue. Also, he made the choice to make the style of talk on the show more formal and sometimes it comes over as stiff.

    But it's one of the most quotable shows (if not THE most quotable) I've ever watched.

    Jan
     
  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I think someone should rewrite his dialog, not that someone did. In the hands of people like Andreas Katsulas or Peter Jurasik, even the phone book can sound like Shakespeare, but in the hands of light weights like Bruce Boxleitner or Claudia Christian, the flaws become more apparent.
     
  8. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Gemoetry of Shadows - This was a decent episode. Sheridan's orange obsession is weird. The fact that they keep reminding the audience is making me think that the upcoming enemy that everyone is talking about are related to the oranges somehow. Maybe they're walking, talking oranges :rommie: (thats a joke, of course, I don't think the oranges are anything but a weirdly focused on thing that Sheridan likes that the show seems to have a weird fascination with). The techno-mages were an interesting concept. The one thing in this episode that was kind of lame was Ivanova trying to get the green and purple guys to get along. One thing it showed is that those communicators need a panic button, something you can press just once to send out a distress signal, instead of actually having to just call normally for help, giving people time to remove the device. Still, it was funny how she solved the problem, by accidentally becoming green leader. Londo's parts were very good, as always. It was funny seeing what happened to him, and the mages words to him at the end were ominous. Overall, a good episode with a few flaws.
     
  9. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    I refuse to comment on the relationship of Oranges to the enemy you are waiting to see :devil:

    You can't read them until after you finish the Series, but, there is a Trilogy of Books about the Technomages, that are very good, and are blessed by JMS as Canon.

    The Technomage Trilogy
    All are considered canon[18]: written by Jeanne Cavelos.
    1. Babylon 5: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Casting Shadows (2001, ISBN 0-345-42721-1)
    2. Babylon 5: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Summoning Light (2001, ISBN 0-345-42722-X)
    3. Babylon 5: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Invoking Darkness (2001, ISBN 0-345-43833-7)
     
  10. flavaflav

    flavaflav Captain Captain

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    ^^^^^ What Sindatur said. Mr Kirk, when you are done with the series you really should check out the Technomage novels. Actually, check out all the JMS cannonized novels.... The Psi Core, Technomage, and Centauri Prime trilogies. Damn. Good. Shit...
     
  11. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    The Jim Henson Company posted this to their Facebook and Youtube pages earlier today.
    Four Seasons of Frells.
     
  12. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The books sound interesting. I'll check them out when I can whenever I finish the series.

    A Distant Star - The Explorer ship is interesting. It looked like it was the size of Babylon 5. The doctor was really annoying in this episode, to the point of being totally unlikeable. I get the joke, it just wasn't very funny. Lots of doctors in media, like other SciFi shows, have done similar stuff, but in this situation the doctor just came off as an ass. It was also annoying that Sheridan, Ivanova and Garibaldi just took it, like they were scared of him. Atleast with Ivanova and Sheridan, if they didn't want to do it, they could have told him where to shove his diet. Its not like he would have gotten them relieved of duty or something for ignoring him, for them it was just reccomendations, unlike garibaldi who probably had the most reason to have to be on a special diet. I don't hate the doctor, but I'd say he's no McCoy or Phlox (thats right, Phlox is my second favorite ST doctor, what of it :klingon: :lol:) and he's easily the most annoying character of the main cast right now.

    The ship rescue story was cool. Its interesting to learn more about B5's take on Hyperspace. I thought it was some kind of wormhole thing, and that they coulkd just leave hyperspace at any time. It makes me wonder how they can explore, since they'd have to travel under the speed of light once they get to the farthest point that a gate exists. That must mean they spend a lot of time exploring small areas of space, and (from what I heard) building new gates periodically.

    Also, what is up with Delenns head? The shell used to be part of it, but now its obviosusy just covering the hair, like some kind of accessory. Is it still supposed to be part of her head, or is it something she wears to look more like she used to? I hope its not supposed to still be part of her head, because it makes no sense because it just sits above the hair, its not connected to her skull. I just don't know if its just supposed to be an accessory, or a stupid design. Its not a huge deal, I just kept thinking about it when I saw her. Plus, I just looked it up on wikipedia, I guess Delenn is still played by the same actoress, and stays the same actoress throughout the whole show. Then, why was she in a cacoon? I thought it was to replace the actress. Did she dislike not having her hair out, and they did that so that she didn't leave the show? Or did they always plan to change her look (for reasons that aren't very clear) after one season? Its not a problem, it just seems weird to me. Overall, this was another good episode.
     
  13. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    Dr. Franklin does tend to think he is right no matter what; this does come to haunt him later in the show actually...but don't forget that he did eat the Bagna Cauda in the end!

    Sounds about right.

    It is connected to her skull. It looks clearer in later episodes.

    The transformation of Delenn was planned out before season one started production. There are some specific reasons related to the plot.
     
  14. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I remember he did let Garibaldi eat his thing, although it was only after hearing Garibaldi's story. As for delenn, I have no problem with it being part of her head, it just didn't look very good in this episode, since, because of the way her hair is, there is obviously hair beneth it, and the shell just sitting on top. I guess I'll just get used to it as a somewhat poorly done make up effect.
     
  15. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    Because she's now half-human, her head changed a little bit. So yeah, there is a space there now. But it's connected on the side of her head where it grows out from.
     
  16. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah the "head bones" on the Minbari are actually two separate ridges that grow out and back from the temples and fuse where they meet in the middle. The "bone" itself is not actual bone but more like horn or antler and through binding and carving can be shaped into specific styles. This is why religious caste Minbari (and especially females) have a more ornate, smooth look while those of the warrior caste have a more rugged (and probably more natural) rough hewn style. It also grows more with age, hence Lennier's looking the way it does. If you look back it actually grows over the course of the show.

    As for Delenn's "bone", IIRC you actually see Lennier pick of her old bone out of the remnants of the cocoon, so what she has now is all new growth.

    In the real world though, yes the original make-up design did bother Mira quite a bit so when the time came for the change, they tried to make it a lot less uncomfortable to wear. Still, it took them a few episodes to figure out exactly how to handle how to wear her hair so it didn't look so odd. Regardless, I think even to this day she was never happy with how it looked.
     
  17. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    I always thought the female Minbari had a rounded crested look while the males were all rougher and spiked.
     
  18. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

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    There are probably some gender differences since Lennier's has more points than Delenn's or Shaal Mayan's but it could also be part of the cultural fashion since we see how much pointier and even possibly weaponized the Warrior Caste bones are.

    Jan
     
  19. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    The human/minbari makeup actually took longer to apply than the original Minbari makeup!
     
  20. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^If I recall correctly, it wasn't so much the length of time to apply as it was all the glue. Plus I think she didn't believe it looked very flattering. I could be misremembering though.

    She may have also had a bad reaction to the appliances. I know it was certainly a problem for the actresses that played Ko D'Ath & Na'toth

    I'm pretty sure the more curved shape for females is a style thing, not a natural feature of Minbari sexual dimorphism. If you'll recall, there was a warrior caste female in command of the renegade ship in 'Points of Departure' and her bone was just as rough and pointy as any male Minbari we've seen.

    I think Lennier's was just smoother because of his youth. Plus I think some (though by no mean all) religious caste males have a similar multi-pronged look as the warriors, but smoother and more ornately carved like Delenn's & Mayan's.

    No idea where the worker caste fit into things as we very rarely ever see any of them. Probably somewhere in between.