Farscape or Babylon 5?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by kirk55555, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Wow! Another Chiana hater! What is it about her that provokes such a strong reaction from some people? Does she remind people of their ex-girlfriends or something?

    I always thought she was a fun, exotic character, who added a great deal of spice to the proceedings.

    Full disclosure: I actually sold a story about Chiana to the official FARSCAPE magazine back in the day. I can't remember the plot, but it had something to do with her stealing a rare manuscript from a weird alien bookstore . . . .

    Trouble ensued.
     
  2. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It wouldn't have been Farscape otherwise. :p
     
  3. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

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    That is one of the funniest episodes of the season, and highly arc-relevant too.

    Seriously, stop reading ahead. Don't. If you're going to talk yourself out of watching all the best episodes because you think you know what they'll be about (you don't), why even bother?

    "The Locket" is okay, but it's not nearly as good as the Princess trilogy or Won't Get Fooled.

    You really should just watch everything. If there's a *really* bad one, we'll warn you. Otherwise, assume they're at least okay. (Beware of Dog is skippable but not bad.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  4. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    <Sindatur picks up the book he loaned to kirk55555 and starts flipping through it> Hey, where's pages 5-20 and 99-124 and 178-196... :p ;)
     
  5. Distorted Humor

    Distorted Humor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This thread is making me want to take out my farscape disks and start watching them, as I not watched the series.
     
  6. Distorted Humor

    Distorted Humor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Double post
     
  7. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Here is Won't get Fooled Again's synopsis from wikipedia

    It mentioned A Human Reaction, and the premise seems similar (except he seems to realise its fake immediately this thime). I didn't like A Human reaction, so it makes no sense to watch this one. I'll read a summary, like I did with A Human Reaction and the Princess trilogy to make sure I don't miss anything important to the overall plot. As for Beware of Dog, its a Chiana episode, so its an automatic skip.

    :rommie:
     
  8. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sorry, but I think it's absolutely foolish to rely on a synopsis to determine whether or not you would like an episode. A synopsis loses all sense of the show. A synopsis is literally the stuff that happened. There's no tone, there's no rhythm, there's no character. There's not STUFF that makes a show unique.

    A synopsis can turn ANYTHING into a boring thing.

    You even say it here, "for reasons I don't really understand" MAYBE if you watched the episode you just MIGHT.

    But, whatever... you claim you're enjoying the show... though, I don't know how when it seems like you're only watching 50% of it....
     
  9. KellynSE

    KellynSE Cadet Newbie

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    I’m a sometimes lurker on The Trek BBS, and this thread inspired me to finally sign up for an account.

    Hi kirk5555, I hope I don’t come off as creepy given that this is my first post, and I promise I’m not trying to tell you that your opinions are wrong or force you to change your mind. Farscape happens to be my very favorite series, so forgive me if I sound a little too passionate here. ;)

    I’m glad you’re enjoying the show, but it doesn’t sound like you’re on the same wavelength in terms of sensibilities. Case in point: you pretty much hated “Crackers Don’t Matter.” Now, of course no single episode of any series is universally liked by every fan, but the general consensus is that CDM pretty much is Farscape in microcosm. It’s hilarious, dark, campy, cracked out, and it takes a cliche TV sci-fi trope--in this case, crew goes space crazy--and executes it in a way that pushes way past anything you’re likely to see on Star Trek (the twist on “Humans Are Superior!,” D’Argo sadistically pinning Rygel down to stuff him full of crackers, John responding “I like the sound of that” when Head!Scorpius suggests keeping Chiana alive in order to rape her later, etc.) Underneath the comedy, there’s a very real sense that it doesn’t take much to push these people to the point of seriously hurting each other.

    It’s not my absolute favorite episode, but I’ve probably seen it more times than any other, as it’s the one I’ll usually pop in if I’m in the mood for some Farscape but I’m not up to rewatching the whole series or even a particular arc.

    As for Chiana, well, personally I liked her well enough my first time through but didn’t give her much thought, and it wasn’t until further watches that I really came to appreciate the character. Your hatred is obviously just one of those gut reactions that can’t be altered, so I won’t even try to debate it, though I’d like to offer an alternate point of view. While I’d very much disagree that Chiana is totally useless, in the context of this particular show I don’t see it as a bad thing at all that she’s often more trouble than she’s worth. This isn’t the Enterprise D supposedly staffed with only the best of the best; we’re dealing with a random, frequently incompetent group of desperate fugitives who often have no idea what the hell they’re doing--and that’s a big part of the fun! Chiana screws up, she behaves selfishly, she sometimes makes things worse, and she annoys the others, too. Early on, at least, they like her just enough not to toss her off Moya at the earliest opportunity. Still, even where you’re at she’s started to display some real growth. She made up for indirectly getting Aeryn stabbed by going to the Gammak base, she helped deliver Talyn, and twice she’s risked her own welfare for Zhaan’s sake. There’s an arc here, though it’s certainly your right to have no interest in it.

    Finally, as to “Won’t Get Fooled Again” again versus “A Human Reaction,” you may very well end up hating both, but they are extremely different episodes unless you see basic plot similarities as the only and final word in fiction. In terms of tone and style, they could hardly be further apart, and though they do share some thematic concerns, the series is in no way content to just repeat itself. “A Human Reaction” is important in terms of character development (which it sounds like you mostly skipped through) and later plot complications, but “Won’t Get Fooled Again” is absolutely quintessential Farscape, running on all cylinders.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  10. Yoda

    Yoda Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The only way to win this thread is not to play

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Premium Member

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    First of all, Crichton gradually losing his sanity is one of the major arcs this season. If you haven't picked up on that yet it's because you have been skipping too much.

    Second, WGFA is totally different than AHR. They aren't the same at all. AHR is played straight, mostly, while WGFA quickly descends into slapstick comedy and then continues even further into downright bizarre.

    Let me be clear: up until this point, Farscape has had a lot of standalone episodes. That diminishes significantly from now on. Most episodes will be arc-relevant and many will be arc-critical.

    Case in point: The Princess trilogy, and then WGFA, are in the first 4 episodes to feature a new race that becomes a major player in the series later on. You are completely missing their introduction because of a synopsis.
     
  12. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    It took me a minute to remember which episode Won't Get Fooled Again, but now that I do I realize it is one of my favorite episode of the entire series. Seriously, don't skip it, it's a great episode, tons of fun, and if I remember correctly it does play a pretty big part in the arc of the show. You probably should be careful if you're going to be skipping episodes so much, you seem to be skipping some of the most important character and plot episodes. I don't remember the Princess trilogy that well, but I think it does play a pretty big role in the development of several of the characters, and their relationships. Plus it introduces one of the most important races in the later part of the show.
     
  13. Rowan Sjet

    Rowan Sjet Commodore Commodore

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    Urgh, I'm beginning to agree.

    Please stop missing episodes because of the synopsis, you're making me die a little on the inside.
     
  14. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I mean, honestly... I can get skipping "Taking the Stone" and other Worst of Farscape episodes, but watching season two without the Princess trilogy and "Won't Get Fooled Again" is a bit like just not watching season two at all.
     
  15. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Here's the thing: a synopsis just gives you the bare bones of a plot, and plot is just one small part (and often not even the most important part) of any individual episode. Experiencing a good TV episode is about more than just finding out how the characters get from Point A to Point B: there's the atmosphere, the acting, the funny dialogue and bits of stage business, the visuals, the music, the pacing . . . all of which has more to do with determining whether an ep is worth watchng than just who did what where.

    Plots are a dime a dozen. The execution is what matters.

    Here's an example. "Boy fights dragon" is a plot, but that tells you nothing about what kind of story it is. Is it a lofty high fantasy saga? A gritty, sweaty barbarian adventure? A whimsical, pun-filled light fantasy? A snarky postmodern spoof of fairy tales? A religious allegory? A political satire?

    A synopsis is not the whole story.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  16. HighteeHeller

    HighteeHeller Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm beginning to think we are all getting our legs pulled. Seriously. Kirk has bashed every highly rated, important episode, continually bashes a favourite character, and is now refusing to watch episodes important to the overall arc. It doesn't add up.

    Farscape might not be for everyone, and, ya, it has some bad episodes, but to blatantly disregard what the fans say, read synopsis instead of watching the episodes, and then skip important character and plot developments because you might not enjoy them, well, that's just bizarre. Too strange to be the truth.

    If, in fact, you are doing all these things for real, then, like others have said, just stop watching. For yourself, and for our sanity.
     
  17. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Nicely put. A big part of the appeal of FARSCAPE is that the characters aren't an orderly, disciplined crew that works well together. Hell, they can't even get around to agreeing on a captain . . . it's an anarchic group of runaways, refugees, and outcasts, which is half the fun.
     
  18. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    How's a new watcher going to know which character is a fan favorite or which eps. are important? I remember getting a fan of the new Doctor Who series to some of the old show and he didn't like The Caves Of Androzani, a long time fan favorite storyline.

    Part of the problem with people see shows anymore is that they can pick and choose what eps. they want to see, even if the eps. in question are important.
     
  19. HighteeHeller

    HighteeHeller Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think he already knows these things and is having fun. I have a hard time believing that someone who clearly doesn't like what makes Farscape great would continue to watch it.
     
  20. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not pulling anyone's leg, I give my honest opinions to everything I watch. I am a bit insulted at the insinuation that I'm just trolling farscape fans, but I understand that the internet has a lot of people like that, so its easy to get suspicious. All I can say is that I do not enjoy ticking people off, thats just not the kind of guy I am. I'm just a sci Fi fan who apparently has some opinions that don't agree with other fans. If you don't agree with me, you don't have to read my posts. Now, on to the stuff I watched today.

    The Locket (Farscape) - First off, I did skip the princess trilogy, Beware of Dog and won't get Fooled Again, and started again with this episode. Its an average, forgettable episode, I don't have much to say about it.

    The Ugly Truth (Farscape) - I really enjoyed this episode. The different tellings were entertaining. Well, except Zhaan's telling, which was a bit annoying. It seems like, once again, Talyn is just around to cause trouble, although their situation was probably more Moya's fault. I was surprised to see stark acting like he did, I thought he was more level headed than this episode showed. Overall, a very good episode.

    A Clockwork Nebari (Farscape) - This was not a good episode. It was very Chiana heavy, I didn't watch all of it.