Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Dec 8, 2012.
Yeah, and she was the worst one.
They usually are with respect to race when the historical figure's race is integral to what makes the person's life and achievements noteworthy.
As others have pointed out, the race of the FF (as well as most other fictional characters for the most part) had no bearing whatsoever on who the characters were.
So, you thought Kitt wasn't any good in the role because she was black?
Yeah. More and more I'm getting the impression that Josh Trank will be giving us Josh Trank's Fantastic Four rather than Stan and Jack's Fantastic Four.
I feel as if this train is riding down the same track as "The Last Airbender" and is heading for the same wreck.
They should cast the best actor for Johnny and the best actor for Sue. After that, let the pieces fall where they will as regards their backstory. One of them (or both) can be adopted Diff'rent Strokes style, or they can be cousins. Not really a huge issue.
And Idris Elba was pretty awesome as Heimdall, IMO.
Instead of making Johnny black, I'm surprised they didn't cast a black actor to play Ben Grimm. The big black guy is a common trope everywhere these days.
There is no amount of acting that will overcome 50 years of a major character being presented as white. It doesn't matter if the character is real or imagined; you have a 50 year history of people expecting a certain product (including the recent two films that had a white Johnny Storm). You can't pull a switch out and expect it to retain the same audience.
New Coke, anyone?
And Heimdall? Let's all take a vote on even how many comics fans knew who Heimdall was. Unless you were a big reader of Thor, you likely didn't know. Johnny Storm? He's all over the place.
My vote? I will not pay a dime for this garbage if Michael B. Jordan is Johnny Storm. His casting will be a signal flare of what a wreck it's going to be. The only reason I'm keeping up with the news is to see if this casting with Jordan falls through.
Even being charitable, it doesn't seem like it'll be better and more authentic than the first one which it needed at a minimum. The bar has been set higher and there seems to be an indifference in creating the Fantastic Four dynamic.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
- Martin Luther King, August 28 1963
I haven't read F4 yet, so could someone explain to me why Johnny has to be white, other than the fact that it's how it was in the comics? I don't really see how changing character's race automatically means the movie is going to be a train wreck, unless it goes against an important aspect of the character.
As for having for the different races for the actors/tresses being looked at for Johnny and Sue, I don't see why one of them wouldn't be adopted. Do they really need to be siblings? Couldn't they just be really close platonic friends, or something along those lines?
No. They have to be brother and sister. Period. The family angle is what made FF unique among Marvel super-teams in the first place.
The Fantastic Four have gotten a raw deal in the movies. One unreleased tv movie quality film, and two below average movies done by that guy that did Barbershop who was clearly the wrong type of director for these type of movies. A movie Dr Doom was that completely butchered by the writing, nothing but a Green Goblin knockoff, when he is considered one of the best villains in Marvel comics.
She was purrrrfect.
All question of race aside, and I'm perfectly happy with Michael B. Jordan in theory (never seen him in anything), making Sue and Johnny not siblings pretty much is a dealbreaker. Make Johnny adopted if you have to.
You're right overall in your post, but this is a bit laying it on. Using Daredevil as an example of somebody "nominally" white is odd too, since disabilities aren't exactly discriminating.
I wouldn't care if they made Johnny and Sue black, or all four of them for that matter---I dare them to do it! But to cast Sue and Johnny as people of different color and of the wrong relative ages and then come up with an adoption angle to explain it just seems needlessly convoluted.
Yeah, that's my complaint. If anything I'm not criticizing them for making Johnny Storm black, I'm criticizing them for making Susan Storm white. Having part of a pair and not the other part a different race raises the specter of tokenism. They're afraid to take the risk of not trying to appeal to minorities while also being afraid to be seen to have too many minorities. I'm hoping they also weren't afraid to have an interracial couple and that influenced their decision.
Close platonic friends with the same last name?
The idea of an Invisible Woman is more apropos with respect to a black woman, anyway.
It's also worth pointing out that the first theatrical film had an interracial couple, in Ben and Alicia.
I can see that then. I really don't know much about the FF compared to the Avengers characters or X-Men, so my questions were asked out of honest curiosity.
I'm on board for that. My personal priority is keeping the relationships intact, so if Johnny is black I would prefer Sue to be too. If switching all four works better, I say go for it.
You took the post right out of my fingers; I was beginning to wonder if anyone even knew that word anymore. That's exactly what this re-racing of characters is. I'm surprised people like Sam Jackson put up with it. What they need to do is actually create Black characters (and other minorities, and so on). Diversity is not served by putting a White character in blackface-- that raises the specter of Ted Danson. That, plus the ideas that Sue and Johnny don't have to be related and that it doesn't matter how old Reed is and so forth demonstrates a lack of respect for the source material. This is what happened to the first movie. They watered down Reed's character, they totally re-imagined Doom, and it was a bad movie. If a concept is worth making a movie about, they should actually use that concept.
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