Falling Skies - season 3

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by DarthTom, May 23, 2013.

  1. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yea, I think you're mostly right.

    As Guy pointed out, if the term he was elected for is still active, without a question, he is the President and it is his duty to lead.

    If the term he was elected for has expired, during the invasion/rebellion, then he is the natural one to lead, and I believe he has a duty to do so, however, if there is a mechanism for objecting and replacing him, then it becomes stickier.

    In addition to all that, The Federal Government is not the ruler of the United States, the States are self Governing, and merely have to stay within the confines of Federal Laws. Other than Federal laws, the only "authority" over the states comes from the power of the Military and the power of the purse. Well, obviously, the power of the purse is gone, and there is no infrastructure for enforcing Federal Laws Countrywide, so, really, local leaders aren't practically bound by the President's authority (Other than his possible ability to take his authority with the military). Of course if a President does turn up, it would be in everyone's best interest for the Local Leaders to work with the President and allow him to take the lead coordinating with the various local groups (providing he isn't some "off the rails" fool)
     
  2. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Simple answer: There's no guarantee that the Presidential Bunker survived the initial invasion of beings capable of crossing space and invading entire planets.

    Therefore, any assertion of the president's survival and legitmacy is suspect until someone from the 2nd Mass can see his face and confirm his identity. If that happens next episode, fine. Until then, I don't trust Sniper Barbie as far as I can throw her.
     
  3. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, absolutely the information shouldn't be judged as accurate without proof. My post, was about what the possibilities are once they have that proof.
     
  4. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was just making a general observation in response to the whole discussion, not just your post. Actually everything you said makes sense. Really, if the president turns out to have survived his only automatic authority is command over Federal armed forces. His authority over civilians requires federal laws, which are enacted by Congress. If the records of the old laws (including the Founding Documents) are destroyed, and there is no Congress to enact new ones, then even if the old president survived I'd say any civilian willing to continue his allegiance to President Tom Mason ought to. It's up to those soldiers who were in the military before the invasion to decide to respect the survivor's authority or resign from Federal service and enlist as regulars in the current resistance.

    In short, there is no "have to" when it comes to accepting this Hathaway's leadership...except if he wants to force the issue at the point of a gun.

    And if he does that, what kind of leader would he be anyway?
     
  5. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He has already forced the issue at gunpoint, through the sniper and killed someone.

    We don't know if his term is up, but I wouldn't follow a president. There are likely 100,000 Americans left at most, the aliens won, we lost. There is no Country anymore. Tom to me is leader of the city, which is The New USA.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's ridiculous for Tom's people to call the one city they do have the united states.

    Mayor of Chareslton?

    That's one of the things I loved about Asmiov's foundation novels, the tiny little city was ruled by a mayor, which eventually covered the entire planet and then half the galaxy by the time Asimov died, but still the elected ruler of half the galaxy was called "The Mayor".

    (You all did see the "this season" on Falling Skies preview advert after the two hour pilot? The kids inside the TV might be blind and dumb, but we who can see the fricking future can accept that Ben Hathaway is Ben Hathaway.)
     
  7. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    It's very likely that most of those survivors still consider themselves citizens of the United States and don't want their country to come to an end. If the President showed up, alive and sane, they would follow him. Therefore, by the will of the people, the country would still exist. It remains to be seen, though, whether he's really alive or competent to lead.
     
  8. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The United States is a country created on ledger-sized newsprint. If the founding documents still exist, the country still exists, regardless of what people are dead and what people aren't. If the founding documents of individual states still exist, then those states are still United states.

    If none of these documents exist, then those that survive can reconstitute the nation in whatever way they please by creating new ones, which was done in Charleston. If those that recreated the country want to call their chief executive President and their country United States, then that's their business until somebody with bigger guns and balls tells 'em different.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Considering the brain trust they first met in Charleston last season, it's a one hundred percent certainty that they spent months writing a new constitution while everyone else was being enslaved and executed.
     
  10. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm pretty sure that there isn't any military left, either. The whole shebang was taken out in the initial strike. Anything left is just a bunch of dudes following a dude.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Depends on the definition of "the Military". The guys that can fly helicopters, and launch missiles might be toast, but the guys who run around with rifles shooting the enemy in the face, those guys probably made it and signed the hell back up once they encountered what seemed like the military of old.
     
  12. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    There were less than 100 people in Woodbury, but the title used was "the Governor" in the Walking Dead.

    In the Emberverse series of novels after electricity stops working and 95% of the population dies off eventually you have a former member of the US military establish the United States (Of Boise) which basically consists of Idaho.
     
  13. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, Charleston did seem to have a significant (for them) contingent of military, and evidently had been reaching out to other groups. I could see why they would consider themselves successors--but then so could other groups.
     
  14. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The military on the show is pretty much retired people that the aliens didn't kill, who came out of retirement.

    The amount of people left is next to none. If I lived in that world I wouldn't call what is left the USA.
     
  15. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Neither would I, but that's easy for both of us to say not being in that situation and never having lived through what these people have.

    I look at it this way: There are some people - shocking, but true - who think that it's important to have a United States in the world, for the idea of it if not for the population or industry. For them, the reality of it containing only a handful of people in one town is immaterial. A United States is necessary and desired, and it might be something nice to have if the aliens ever get kicked off the planet later, so they recreated it. You disagree. Fine. If the day comes when we all get our asses handed to us by Klingons and you survive and find yourself in a position of leadership, you can reshape civilization in any way you like.

    It won't matter, because I, Imperator of Colbournetopia, will be along presently with my legions to enslave you and hear the lamentation of your women. :angel:
     
  16. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it was a pretty good episode. I can't remember any specific praise or criticism ATM.
     
  17. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    If aliens invaded, I'd still call the United States the United States. I'd also still call Boston Boston, North America North America and Earth Earth. I don't really see any reason to cooperate with invaders by eradicating place names.
     
  18. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    While this could change if you survived the invasion and then the country was rebuilt 20/30 years later. They were marking the 2 year anniversary of the invasion. It's not like people are going to forget *THAT* fast and for the most part around the world people who grow up in countries are nationalistic and take pride in their country.

    The survivors have been through horrible events so giving them some bit of normalcy in the United States, a President, and an election system is a bit of relief from their world being turned upside down.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I just want you to imagine what would happen in an IRS collector showed up to audit Charleston and walk away with 35 percent of everything, and promise to be back for another 35 percent the following year.

    Blind honour to the country doesn't mean anything if there isn't some quid pro quo involved in belonging to the United States you pay taxes to.
     
  20. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    The real problem is that they, for some mysterious reason, felt they had the right to create a new United States without being sure that they were the last -- and only -- survivors of the previous one. And now, not even a year into it, they're acting shocked that there are other humans out there and, even more shockingly, that they have their own body of government in place.

    I just don't get the thought processes that go into this kind of writing.