Excelsior Technical Manual - Revived!

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Praetor, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. friedebarth

    friedebarth Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I appreciate you making yourself this much work, and so far this is good writing, as well as a good compellation of images.

    However I absolutely hate FASA's idea to put transwarp into the Excelsior class, which is for me just plain stupidity and ignorance of canon. Which is why FASA is non-canon, anyway :P :D

    Will you ever be planning to do a canon Excelsior Tech Manual?
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Wait. what? What transwarp? Did you read what Praetor wrote? He extrapolated what was seen in the movies but ultimately made transwarp a failure as it was portrayed in the later shows. That's about as "canon" as it can get I think.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2009
  3. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's worth noting that in the mid-eighties, transwarp was a success as far as anyone else knew. According to the Enterprise-A bridge graphics in Star Trek IV (Mike Okuda's first Trek contribution, I believe), the ship was packing transwarp drive too. FASA was knocking about around that time, was it not? I never heard of it until recently.

    TNG made things a bit clearer, and "transwarp" was always a super-advanced tech associated with the Borg. With the exception of the newt episode... I think Praetor's done a great job of retconning everything to make sense.
     
  4. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thank you for the compliments. :)

    As for the transwarp and 'canon' issue...

    Bingo, and that was my goal - to stay as true to 'canon' as possible.

    Since the (mostly) official materials such as the TM and STE say transwarp was a failure, as far as I'm concerned it was a failure - although as I mentioned it was a pseudo-success as the source for the innovations that led to the recalibrated warp scale and the TNG-style warp drive.

    Well, I even tried to fit in infinite velocity whatnottery from the 'newt' episode without the actual mention of the whole 'newt' thing - even if it did require some creative retconning on my part. :)

    Okay, let's wade our toes in some tech stuff (while I try to force myself to scan my deckplan hand drawings.)
    After looking at the TNG TM again recently, I've been contemplating putting in author's footnotes explaining certain 'behind the scenes' info as Sternbach and Okuda did, and much as I did here with the italicized introductory paragraph - only, of course 'out of universe.' Any opinions on this idea?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
  5. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, definately have footnotes, they are usually worth reading. I had a professor at university who wouldn't touch an article unless it was at least 50% footnotes.

    Nice to see "Okudagram" become an official term, but what's an "observation lunge", as per the first paragraph of the main bridge section? ;)
     
  6. kitsune

    kitsune Captain

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    Why not Excelsior Class Technical Familiarization Resource?

    I think it would be difficult to lift the primary and secondary hulls into orbit if not under their own power.

    or more popularly -> more commonly known as / also known as

    primary == main, so these words don't really add anything

    implying there are accommodations for a non-main crew? ;)

    How about galleys and mess halls instead of food preparation systems? How about the ship's library, gymnasium, and recreational facilities, like the the bowling alley? ;)

    What's a spar? I can't find a fitting definition.

    to -> towards, maybe, since the lower chamber would actually be above or behind that alcove.

    Chevron == V-shaped. The cross-sections are more like half of an ellipse.

    Perfectly curved? Perhaps semi-circular?

    primary -> the primary

    unit -> volume / structure

    the secondary hull houses Shuttlebay One, the Main Cargo Storage Facility, Shuttlebay Two (at the fantail on the dorsal plane), and three torpedo tubes (two fore, one aft).

    elliptical hemisphere is an oxymoron. Semi-ellipsoid would be more technically correct, but it's awkward. I suggest elliptical dome instead.

    from which the twin nacelle struts extend.

    Do you mean the physical shape is streamlined, or the inner workings are optimized?

    main -> primary

    equipped to -> installed on / mated to

    I like to think the Star Trek III bridge was an ejectable test bridge with its own propulsion system, like the one mentioned in the TNG-TM. Although it would be unfair for the bridge to eject in the event of a transwarp test failure, while those stuck in Engineering had nowhere to go...

    mssive -> massive

    Since when has Starfleet ever used seat restraints? Besides that one epsiode of TNG where the shuttle did a complete roll? :D

    Well, maybe in Enterprise on a few occasions...

    Remove the comma

    retain -> retained

    The only Starfleet ship bridge with a flat surface to set beverages down! :D
     
  7. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    So, was the second bridge installed in 2289 as the first paragraph in that section states, or at the same time as the 2287 refit? This seems confusing the way you flip-flop on the date. Or are you saying that after only 3 years in operation she had a 2 year of refit?
     
  8. Nimitz CO

    Nimitz CO Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's not uncommon for new vessels to go through minor refits at the beginning of there service lives as new technologies become available and are released fron there testing stages. As for the Excelsior, after being fitted with "conventional" warp drive engines, the control interfaces would need to be changed out to accomodate this, and in the case of Starfleet ships where "bridge modules" can be swapped out the little effort, this could be done several times during the service life of the vessel.
     
  9. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Speaking of the removable bridge module, it was interesting to read on Doug Drexler's blog that the NX-01 was designed so the entire warp core and engineering section could be slid out and replaced with an improved model. Maybe something like this could have happened with the Excelsior?

    There are those plates on the top of the engineering hull which look like they could be removed to get at the innards, and the Enterprise refit had something similar around the torpedo bay - there were also what looked like hatches on the pylons, presumably for access to the conduits. An easily replaceable warp core could only increase the life of the ship.
     
  10. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral

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    Huh?

    Did you not see ST-III?

    FASA didn't come up with the idea that the Excelsior was built with transwarp drive. The people who made "ST-III" did. It was a major bit in the film. Go back and rewatch it... (Styles' comments are priceless.)
     
  11. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, but the problem here is he mentions 2 different dates relating to the same refit thus implying that the refit took 2 years to complete.
    I am familiar with the swapability of bridge modules. It's not the issue.
     
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My thinking here was that there would be certain quirks of the Excelsior - such as the original bridge module and transwarp engine stuff - that would not ring true for the other ships, while almost everything else theoretically would. I also wanted to allow anyone a happy degree of latitude in deciding that their Excelsior class ship was somewhat different.

    However, the more I've thought about it, the more I agree with you. So edited. :p

    Yeah, I've decided to reword to leave this vague enough that hopefully anyone can imagine this was done however they like. My original intent was that it should be vague, but clearly it was not vague enough. ;)

    Honestly, when I was writing this I was purposefully trying to imitate some of the language used in 'The Making of Star Trek' to describe the interior layout of the original 1701 - hence the food preparation systems and laundry references.

    There! Are! FOUR! TUBES! :scream:

    ;)

    The former. ;)

    Hopefully the rewording should help with this.

    I think you'll find a new line here pleasing in that regard.

    Ever higher, and all. ;)

    Okay, so after re-reading I've figured out that the reason for the flip-flop was that it was my original intent that the refit began in mid to late 2287 and was complete by 2289. Most of this was meant to encompass refits to the new warp drive. However, you are right referring to bridge installation from two dates was confusing, so I'll henceforth refer to this refit as the '2287 refit.'

    It's funny, but Doug's thinking actually has coincided and inspired my own, but not quite in the same way. Most of the panels that you refer to on the saucer top I've actually interpreted as covers for extensive sensor systems - but I do believe that the original transwarp core was extracted through the top (where the deflection crystal(s) are) and the PTC extracted through the flat back of the secondary hull in a similar fashion.

    Actually, Doug's idea has provided a pretty good solution to the Shuttlebay One quandry I've been having. Since it's been rather difficult to tell how many times that section on the original model was changed and exactly how, I've decided that the hollow volume (while still a concession to lower the ship's mass) was also designed to allow a variety of multi-mission modules, from the Shuttlebay One which is a standard configuration, to other setups that might more closely resemble the versions of the innards on the Jein Excelsior model and also the CGI models that were used.

    So that's that, I think.

    Okay, let's try this bit again. And for reference, here's a link to the cutaway diagram again so you can hopefully follow where I'm going. I keep kicking myself in the butt to start scanning and redrawing my deck pencil drawings, since this is little good without pictures. :p

    [​IMG]

     
  13. kitsune

    kitsune Captain

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    shouldn't consisted be in the present tense?

    The wording implies either the nacelles comprise the engineering section, or all five parts do (including the saucer).

    delete the or

    That structure doesn't seem very bar-like to me...

    Previously established above, although ambiguously.

    Horseshoes have a concave edge. The cross-sections don't. :)

    I think you need a comma after vertically

    in design is redundant

    how about semi-circular vertical cross-section?

    Remove dish to avoid redundancy (there's only one dish, so of course it's the main one, but there are presumably other deflectors that aren't dishes).

    Primarily -> Mostly, unless you wish to convey that its purpose is specifically to be hollow.

    What's modular about it?

    struts is plural, so nacelles should be singular.

    separated -> jettisoned

    unit -> complex

    Wouldn't the intermix chamber be at the center of the stack, between the matter injector and antimatter injector? :confused:

    mounted -> was equipped with, since the ship wasn't performing the mounting...

    current research -> further research and development?

    mounted -> sported

    Maybe he was a computer systems analyst at the ASDB?

    stations -> tubes?
    serve -> service

    This was probably just a typical or recommended arrangement, instead of a permanent one, given that the Okudagram interfaces could be reconfigured as the captain saw fit.

    circumferential -> perimeter? It sounds better even though the bridge isn't a polygon.
     
  14. JNG

    JNG Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command

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    While not necessarily preferable for an in-universe document, this is an acceptable usage in our own era, as in "the cruiser mounted eight-inch guns." It may be archaic hundreds of years from now, but who knows?
     
  15. kitsune

    kitsune Captain

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    Ok. I wasn't aware of that.
     
  16. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks as usual, kitsune. :)

    JNG was right regarding my intention with using 'mounting.' There are a couple of things like this (such as 'turbolift stations') that I purposefully wanted to keep as anachronistic.

    Ok, here we go again, plus a little more:
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  17. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    OK, the last paragraph. If they traveled at high impulse, from the crew's point of view (due to time dilation) they would have less time to prepare. Also, the time required to intercept using impulse as opposed to the faster warpdrive would, from the rest of the universe's standpoint, be longer. Hence V'ger would be closer to earth. So how is it in anyway an advantage for them to intercept slower AND have less time to prepare?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2009
  18. kitsune

    kitsune Captain

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    insert a hyphen: now-traditional

    assembled -> mated ? It sounds funny to have "assembl*" twice in the same sentence. Also, mated seems to be the more appropriate term here.


    Hmm. Maybe cylindrical would be better here. Smoking implements don't seem very common in the 23rd and 24th centuries, with the exception of Data's pipe...

    Sorry. I retract Mainly and suggest A mostly-hollow structure,

    Hopefully it can be jettisoned upward fast enough that it won't ram the saucer section. :)

    modules -> palettes?

    flight tests indicated that a single large crystal was prone to develop[ing] potentially dangerous [micro-]fractures under high load

    easily replaced


    In Star Trek III, didn't the occupants manually position the arms?

    stations

    was installed

    This may have been due to Sulu's personal request, too. After all, he likes to sip tea on the bridge... I doubt it appeared on all the Excelsior bridges.

    I'd remove key

    centrally-located

    The top of the main stairwell is located aft.

    The stairwell provides auxiliary access to all the ship's decks in the event of a turbolift system failure or emergency evacuation.

    ambassadors and their spouses

    engines'

    ship's

    sub-warp

    :confused:
     
  19. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, the V'Ger thing was a bad idea. :lol:
     
  20. Nimitz CO

    Nimitz CO Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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