Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Mr Silver, Dec 24, 2012.

  1. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    But why would it have an inner latch in the first place? It's unnecessary, given that only the inanimate equipment and raw materials will be inside the casing.

    As for why they would remove the latch mechanism, you answered your own question - namely that it was going to be used as a burial coffin. Burial coffins are usually sealed shut with nails, etc before they are buried underground. In the case of Spock, it was important to protect the crew from the radioactive fallout that his corpse would be emitting. I'm not sure anyone would have turned up for the funeral service if there was a chance they'd get sick with radiation poisoning! With that in mind, It's quite possible that they welded it shut (using a laser torch of phaser), and that the metallic inner is made out of lead.

    Regardless of what the movie novelization for TWOK/TSFS suggests, or the confusion of David and Saavik on the Grissom, TWOK movie clearly stresses that the intention was to deliver Spock's body to the Genesis planet - intact presumably.
     
  2. Borjis

    Borjis Commodore Commodore

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    I'm just glad it didn't slam into that tree, flinging spock out from the container.
     
  3. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It could be carried by an African swallow!
     
  4. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    :lol: Don't start that!

    Honestly, some things just don't seem right in the movies. For instance, the area where Spock's casket landed is curiously landlocked, suggesting that the Enterprise crew wanted his casket to land there. (depending on what theory you go with)

    Any kind of release system, would be like installing an emergency burial bell - in case the occupant isn't actually dead. Although Spock's case is unique, in that his katra wasn't dead, his body had ceased to be and was nothing more than an irradiated corpse that would require isolation.
     
  5. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Coffins cost hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. No one is going to be securing them with "nails." The latches and locks usually are brass.

    Ionizing radiation can cause damage to living tissues, however it can not cause those tissues to become radioactive themselves. Any metal pieces on Spock's uniform could have been irradiated and likely would gave been secured in a appropriate container, when he was placed in a fresh uniform prior to burial.

    David casually opened it with one hand on the planets surface.

    Raw materials?

    We did see (eighty years later) the casings being used to transport personnel, there one reason right there. The casing can be used for sensor probes, the ability to expose the sensors by popping the lid could be useful. Same for collecting samples. So there is a need for a interior release.

    :)
     
  6. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    First of all, we don't know exactly what kind of mechanism it had. Perhaps the casket is self-opening to a degree, like how the door of your microwave opens a little when you press the button.

    And given that we've seen Key'lehr travelling in a similar way (albeit with a life support system), I'd say it's possible that there is indeed a release catch inside the thing, if only for safety's sake.

    Why would the casket crush if it wasn't air sealed? If it wasn't air tight, then the air inside could be sucked out into space and then the pressure would be the same and the casket wouldn't crush. And Spock certainly wouldn't have been pulled out through a little hole a la alien newborn in Alien Resurrection.

    And David clarified that the gravitational fields were in flux and it could have soft landed. And even if the landing did damage Spock's body, the Genesis effect would have restored him.
     
  7. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    Force of the air being expelled, combined with an "easy-open" lid, wouldn't play out well, especially if pressure is the trigger to open the latch. Also, there would still be gases within Spock's body, which would be expelled as well.

    In my head, I'm correlating all sorts of disastrous outcomes (which didn't happen in the movie) as a result of an improperly sealed casket being fired at extreme speed, out into the vacuum of space, and then into the atmosphere of a planet. Yet, the last shot of TWOK is Spock's un-tarnished and perfectly lying casket. It's not a stretch to say that the torpedo was made out of materials that are resistant to the effects of atmospheric entry, but then why would it "weather", and after such a short period of time too? (It can't have been more than a week or two between TWOK and TSFS)
     
  8. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Okay then, let's say the casket was pressurized. That removes anything that could damage Spock's body. But why would this result in the casket being crushed or even damaged in any way?
     
  9. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's funny the OP mentions this 'continuity error' when there a more blatant error in TSFS..

    When David first opens the lid the shot reveals the interior to be dirty, but then a few seconds later another shot shows the interior to be be perfectly clean. That one can't be explained and is much more annoying.

    It might be vice versa--first clean, then dirty, but it's a terrible error.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    I just love that we're down to arguing over the mechanisms involved in opening a futuristic coffin. :guffaw:

    Might be time to find a new hobby...
     
  11. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In my case--it's not anything but a striaght up flub--in one shot the inside is dirty and seconds later it's clean--just a bad bit of continuity--not any debate on how the tube exterior got dirty over several days/weeks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  12. RyanKCR

    RyanKCR Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I still want to know where all that extra damage on the Enterprise comes from between TWOK and TSFS
     
  13. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Continuity errors? Blame it on the director.

    Maybe I missed it, but I've never seen anyone blame Nimoy for the problems with ST3.

    Everyone and his dog blames Shatner for ST5, but it seems that no one wants to stick Nimoy with that kind of stigma.
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    LOL. True, but at least time passed between end of TWOK and TSFS.
     
  15. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    If anything, if it's the prop and VFX departments who are to blame for the casket flubs. I'm pretty sure they could have done a better job with the casket - even in 1983/4!

    As for the storyline gaffs, one has to look no further than Harve Bennett. Nimoy approved the script and story as the film's director, but it's not like he wrote it!
     
  16. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    True! One of the most terrible cont errors I've ever seen is where they slipped in a shot of a a klingon and expected the audience wouldn't notice it WASN'T Saavik.

    Oh yeah, the svelte Saavik in a Starfleet uniform looks exactly like a burly klingon in leather warriors outfit. :eek:
     
  17. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Huh?

    Maybe I missed that part too.
     
  18. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    Damn! I completely forgot about this!

    Yeah, it's just before the Pon Farr scene. At one stage I speculated that this was intentional, as if a Klingon had gone ahead and was trying to sneak up on Saavik and Spock, only to get killed during the tectonic event.
     
  19. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No it wasn't intentional--they just didn't have the shot they needed of Curtis.

    It's when Saavik is standing next to a tree after she has sent david off to fight the Klingons. By, you know Vulcan 'expert' Nimoy who forgot that Vulcans 'can go without sleep' for weeks who later had Saavik sound asleep after mating with young Spock and got taken by surprise by the klingons.

    Here is a still of the shot, but it is nearly impossible to see in a single frame.
    On right side of picture a klingon from the back, his head and right arm behind the tree.
    http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfs/ch7/tsfs0691.jpg
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Whose to say Vulcans don't pass out after they get their groove on?