Everytime I watch TWOK/TSFS...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Mr Silver, Dec 24, 2012.

  1. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    ...Something new ends up bugging me!

    To be fair, this time, it wasn't something that I had really noticed before. One of the TV channels was showing TWOK (the regular version, not the DE unfortunately!) the other night, and as per usual, I ended up watching it (I'm quite confident I can recite every line in the movie).

    It wasn't until the end of the movie that my "that's not right!" senses kicked in. Observe:

    [​IMG]

    This is Spock's casket at the end of the movie, untarnished and perfectly intact on the surface of the Genesis planet. This works in favour of David's theory in TSFS that the tube soft landed when the gravitational fields were in flux. But! Then:

    [​IMG]

    In TSFS, we see the casket, showing the effects of the elements OR burn damage from it being shot from Enterprise and/or entering the atmosphere of Genesis. As you can also see from this photo, David is about to open the casket, which comes across as being as simple as lifting the lid open. This raises the question as to how Spock's body managed to remain inside the casket during the transit. I mean, perhaps it didn't, he was found a distance away from the casket after all, but surely the Enterprise crew would have ensured that the casket was sealed shut? After all, it wasn't exactly a foregone conclusion that Spock would be resurrected and need to escape the coffin. You also have to consider his condition, specifically the fact that he'd still be emitting dangerous levels of ionised radiation for several hours at least, following his death. This would make the task of airtight sealing the casket, one of the utmost importance.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Honestly? It looks like a car drove by it and splashed mud everywhere. Maybe it rained.
     
  3. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    :lol:

    "Lost" style TSFS conspiracy theories!

    John Locke: "We're not the first people on this planet, and we all know it!!"

    When I was getting the pictures for the thread, I had this strange scenario play out in my head, in which a team of explorers beamed down to Genesis, and used a laser torch to open Spock's casket. Perhaps they reasoned that his cells would breakdown and regenerate, and that he would need to breathe?
     
  4. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The only thought I can offer is that continuity was not as important to people then as it is now.
     
  5. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    As for the casket being open, I figured once Spock got big enough, he probably just busted out of the thing. His robes were still inside, remember. He used his angry Vulcan toddler strength to escape to freedom.
     
  6. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Its just weathered - its still intact, just covered in crud. Rain, mud, ash etc.

    And who's to say there's not some sort of catch under the edge of the lid ?
     
  7. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    It's possible, but then how did Spock get out? It's not like there would be a catch inside, just in case somebody got locked in, it is a weapon after all.

    It's probably safe to say that the inside was designed to be airtight, to ensure that none of the inner elements and chemicals would react before they were supposed to.

    The way I see it, they removed all the inner parts of the tube and put Spock's body into it (whether this was within the reactor room due to radiation contaminant risks, or whether it was in sickbay is anybody's guess) and then sealed it shut, with the intention that it wasn't going to be opened with anything less than a cutting beam.
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Something vaguely like those glow in the dark trunk lid releases, like they put in American cars. To prevent people from being trapped.

    Baby Spock moved, there was pressure outside, the lid released, he crawled out.

    *****

    Where did the rest of Spock's body get too? He changed from a 85 kg adult corpse, into a sub 5 kg baby. Where did the rest of him go? There should have been organic "goo" in the torpedo casing.

    In one of the Incredible Hulk movies, when the Hulk change back to Banner, there was a growing puddle of fluids around his feet.

    :)
     
  9. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    I've gone over this a few times, trying to piece together Spock's resurrection:

    Stage 1: Spock's corpse comes into contact with the lingering Genesis effect (which doesn't explain why the casket still remains) and undergoes cellular disintegration - that's if Spock hadn't already been melted down into cellular residue via atmospheric entry.

    Stage 2: The cells regenerate and undergo rapid development, presumably skipping the fetal stage (since there was nothing to serve as a womb on the Genesis planet) and forming an infant Spock.

    Stage 3: Spock begins rapidly ageing, until his cells reach roughly the same age as they were when his original body died.
     
  10. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Maybe the torpedo tube WAS the womb!

    Dun-dun-duuuuuuun.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Likely food for the evolving microbes that were there when it was shot from the Enterprise.
     
  12. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Starfleet finally got around to installing seat belts.
     
  13. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It looks like the Genesis planet had, you know, weather.
     
  14. shivkala

    shivkala Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If there is an emergency release latch inside, I'm interested in finding out the reasons why they are there. Starfleet Academy hazing, maybe? Pranks on the junior officers? These things were not designed to have human bodies in them. Unless it's SOP to put bodies into them to "bury them at space." Which, in Spock's case, makes some sense due to the radiation (as I'm sure the photon torpedo casing would have to protect against the radiation from inside the torpedo).
     
  15. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    ^ The radiation hazard plays a big part. Sure, they could vent the reactor room (a process that would take several hours presumably, hence the need for Spock's sacrifice in the first place) so the engineers could enter (in their suits) safely and remove Spock's body. But then, Spock's body would still be emitting dangerous levels of radiation, necessitating additional precaution.

    The way I see it, McCoy and/or and his staff entered the chamber in rad suits to prepare Spock's body and dress him in his burial robe. The engineers then entered the chamber with the casket (which would be radiation proof by nature) which Spock's body was placed inside, and then the casket was sealed shut. They then took the casket to the torpedo bay, confident that Spock's radioactive corpse would pose no danger in a radiation proof, airtight sealed casket.

    Sure, they could have simply beamed him out, straight into the casket. But then you have to take into account the frequent complications with transporters and radiation, along with the fact that Spock was dressed in his robe. Again, they could have beamed him into the robe, then into the casket, by now it's become a comedy sketch! Starfleet would have procedures that emphasise respect for the deceased, when dealing with the preparation and burial of the deceased.

    I am trying to keep this serious!
     
  16. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That is MADNESS!!!!!
     
  17. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    What you see in the second pic is an early form of the microbes that we later see much larger.

    And there's a little catch thing that David released when he opened it, much like opening a car door.
     
  18. Mr Silver

    Mr Silver Commodore Newbie

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    ^ But there was no pressure release nor did David show signs of any resistance when opening it. This suggests one of two things, either Spock had an in-built release switch (which would be stupid, since he was dead) which broke the airtight seal, or the Casket wasn't sealed at all.

    If it wasn't air-sealed, then it's quite frankly impossible that Spock's corpse would have managed to make the trip to Genesis (and creating a massive plot hole in the process), given the effects of the vacuum of space on organic matter (the force would surely pull Spock's corpse from inside the coffin, if not crush the casket into a ball!), not to mention what happens with an atmospheric entry. The casket would have been made out of duranium, presumably, but even that would be useless unless it was properly sealed - as all space ships are.
     
  19. Trekky0623

    Trekky0623 Ensign Red Shirt

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    The latch could've been damaged or forced open when it hit the ground. One hinge breaks or the latch is jostled open, and it be easy for Spock to push his way out. What does David mean exactly when he says "soft landed" anyway? How soft are we talking about? Could it have landed pretty hard and any damage to Spock been repaired by the Genesis device?
     
  20. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or the inner/outer latch is standard equipment with the casing. Why would the Enterprise crew deliberately remove or disable the inner portion of the latch mechanism, just because the casing was going to be used as a burial coffin?