"Even the Lies?" "Especially the Lies"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by tomalak301, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Define 'universal'.*

    And ~'good and evil are mere points of view' is very far from your 'some things are clearly good and others are clearly evil, but there's plenty of room in between'.
    No 'clearly' anything.

    *PS - I see you speak of the entire human race.
    Aliens are included in 'universal' or not, as per your definition?
    Forehead trek aliens or alien mentally, as well?
     
  2. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    I don't think they're inherently different perspectives, they just have different emphases. The one I stated emphasizes that some parts of the state space resemble absolute morality; the one they stated emphasizes that other parts of the state space do not. Both recognize that the state space contains a combination of both types of morality, though.
     
  3. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One conception denies you can call something 'good' or 'evil' by using objective criteria and another affirms it.
    And there are supposed to not be 'different' conceptions - despite you naming them 'perspectives'?
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Fine... so how about giving some empirical data on what good and evil is. Since it's an absolute fact as you're suggesting.
     
  5. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    R. Star, you just established you didn't even read the posts you want to respond to.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because I don't agree with you, it has to be because I didn't read your oh so classy posts? Projection is common for people who can't stand an opposing viewpoint. When your "debating" consists of calling any statement that disagrees with you nonsense and putting words in other people's mouths, don't expect to be taken seriously.
     
  7. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, R. Star.
    You didn't read my posts because I said expressly that good and evil are not absolute.
    And what do you come up with?
    Apparently, it's your debating that consists of putting words into people's mouths - without even reading the posts.
    Worry about being taken seriously yourself.
     
  8. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My rankings for DS9's top 10.

    You'll note that The Wire is very high. What a great, GREAT episode!! Garak is unparalled in Star Trek!

    #1. Trials and Tribble-ations
    #2. The Wire
    #3. For The Uniform
    #4. In The Pale Moonlight
    #5. Explorers
    #6. The Way of the Warrior
    #7. The Visitor
    #8. Call To Arms/Sacrifice of Angels
    #9. In Purgatory's Shadow
    #10. The Search
     
  9. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    How about that Garak character, eh? If that was his real name....:eek:
     
  10. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I heard his real name was Ten Lubak. ;)
     
  11. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I'm not entirely sure how the concepts of Good vs. Evil came into this thread, but it is an interesting discussion. I'm not sure if I worded my original question all that well, but I think it comes down to now that we know more about Garak and how he develops as the series went on, was there more added "depth" to the "especially the lies" line than what originally met the Eye. We know he's sophesticated, but I was wondering if I was really just missing the overall meaning of that line.

    I will say whenever I watch DS9, Garak becomes even more facsinating as a character on each viewing. It really is a credit to the writers and Andrew Robinson for making Garak probably the best, or at least top 5, characters in all of Star Trek.
     
  12. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    My interpretation is that there is no more real Garak than the one that is spinning a tale, whether they are accurate or manufactured.