Episode of the Week: 2x08 "A Matter Of Honor"

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by MikeS, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A Matter Of Honor (episode) at Memory Alpha
    A Matter Of Honor at Chrissies Transcripts


    Always loved this one and it stands up really well in HD. This must be the first time The Next Generation had put together a run of good, solid episodes. That scene in the mess hall on the Klingon ship still makes me laugh. "If Klingon food is too strong for you, perhaps we could get one of the females to breatfeed you"

    Whoever thought Wesley's line to Mendon was acceptable?! "How do you tell each other apart?"

    How many times does the French Captain surrender during the series? I think this is the second time?

    -----------------------------------------------

    We need to all decide which version of "Measure of a Man" we'll be watching and reviewing next week.
     
  2. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, how do they? Mendon and Mordock were played by the same actor with the same make-up. It's a fair question.
     
  3. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    They must have really let the flood gates open with the Benzites after Mordock got accepted, because Mendon appears to have not only been accepted into the academy, but also made the real rank of ensign before Crusher was even given the proper uniform. It's like the writer watched the episode with Mendon, but missed that one key detail about Mendon being the first benzoate accepted into the academy.

    And as for you Riker...

    I'll see you in "The Icarus Factor" you gawddang hypocrite.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Only if we assume that Mendon was a Starfleet Ensign rather than a Benzar Defense and Occasional Conquest Force one.

    We never learned the rules of this exchange student game. Riker wore his own uniform to a Klingon ship, and Kurn later wore his to a Starfleet vessel, but regardless of his choice of attire, Mendon was still supposed to be part of the exchange program - Riker clearly says so. This heavily suggests he was not in Starfleet, as his exchange assignment was aboard a Starfleet ship!

    Sure, Wesley seems to be confused specifically because he thinks the Benzite must be a Starfleet Academy graduate even though at the same time he cannot be. But what does Wesley know? Mendon never confirms he would have graduated from the SF Academy, or even attended it.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    S2 really kicks in to gear with this episode and the next one. A very good episode for the Klingons.
     
  6. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The only reason they brought back the original actor was because the Benzite makeup was meant for his head, so they brought him back to cut costs. :lol: I think the writer did a good job maintaining the continuity. Mendon would not have been a real Starfleet ensign who graduated from the Academy. They make a point to show how ignorant of Starfleet protocols he is.

    Fast forward to DS9. In Apocalypse Rising, Sisko overhears a Klingon warrior who says he killed Sisko's friend from the Academy, a Benzite captain. Not possible if Mendon was the first Benzite in Starfleet, whoops.
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Unless Sisko's friend was a Benzite Space Scuffling Force Commander who went to the Academy to get Starfleet credentials at an old age... Say, when Sisko was last at the Academy, doing his own command-qualifications course at the urging of Captain Leyton.

    But yeah, that's an actual oversight, whereas "A Matter of Honor" is just an odd costuming choice. A bit like giving Captain Christopher or Khan Noonian Singh a Starfleet uniform, but not giving Miranda Jones or Samuel Clemens one.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It came across as very racist (IMO)
     
  9. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Mendon was not a member of Starfleet, and I thought that was made pretty clear.

    I loved this episode; still remember seeing it for the first time on BBC2 - just blew me away and became an instant fave.
     
  10. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Racist? Let me repeat the question: how do people who look exactly the same tell each other apart? It's a completely practical question, and I bet that, were you in Wesley's position, you would ask it as well, or you may risk to say something even more insensitive down the line.
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I think Wesley's question to Mendon might seem racist to some, because some might find it reminiscent of the cross-race effect.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    I find it very difficult to believe there might exist a non-racist way to conduct a conversation with an alien, especially in Star Trek.

    And I don't see any signs of Starfleet being too concerned with such things anyway. If aliens take offense, Starfleet generally says "We don't ask you to submit, scum, but only because we are morally superior!", and Wesley would do well to learn that at an early age...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Let me ask a slightly different question in order to answer yours... Do you believe that Benzites actually "look exactly the same" or do they just appear to look the same to outsiders because they evolved on "the same geo-sphere"? It's not a practical question because it is not a practical problem.

    Thanks to corporalcaptain for the link. That's exactly what I meant.
     
  14. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think they look exactly the same, because "looking exactly the same" and "appearing to look exactly the same" are two phrases which mean the exact same thing. If a vegetable appears to look like exactly like a cabbage, it looks exactly a cabbage, and, if I may be so bold as to guess, it may actually be a cabbage.

    And yes, being able to tell each other apart is a practical problem, one that won't solve itself and that won't be solved by pretending that it doesn't exist. Wesley can't tell Benzites apart, not because he's racist, but because he has no idea how they tell each other apart. That's why he's asking one of them, without any preconception and prejudice.

    tl;dr: it's a false analogy. Benzites are not black people.
     
  15. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    I recently re-watched this episode on the bluray and I think I like it better than ever. This is Riker at his best...STNG is inclusive, Picard is accepting, but while Picard often talks about acceptance, Riker lives it...throws himself into it with a passion even if it's unconventional. That's Riker to me.

    I love that I can finally see the red lighting in the Klingon ship without it bleeding into the low res picture. I noticed the lighting on the Klingon uniforms. The BoP jumps out at you.

    Then of course the Klingons, despite the misunderstanding this episode gave more development to them than any episode in either series up to this point. Its probably the best Klingon episode to date (sorry Errand of Mercy, STIII, Heart of Glory).

    Benzites..wasn't the Wesley line a joke about budget saving? At least that's how I took it. According to Mendon he is from the same geo-structure, which I assume means they do in fact look alike.

    RAMA
     
  16. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Riker admired his father even respected him(Time Squared, Icarus) he just didn't get along with him. Wholly different than waiting for your father to die as you ignore him. I'd expect RIker would have taken a leave if he heard his father was dying. There are lots of people who tolerate their family even if they don't get along.

    RAMA
     
  17. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the line was put there intending to note the "budget saving", however I don't think it came across well. Picard and Wesley are from the same "geo-structure". Do they look alike? Perhaps they do to the Benzites. :bolian:
     
  18. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, they don't look alike, and the Benzites don't have any trouble telling who is who. Vulcans don't look alike either. Neither do Klingons. But Benzites look alike.
     
  19. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well my friend, you have missed the point. I don't want to go on about this as it is but a small detail in an otherwise fantastic episode.
     
  20. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nice move. I'll drop it then, but I'm still firmly convinced that I'm right and you're wrong.