Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by jazzstick, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm highly critical of Enterprise.... but I actually liked Two Days, Two Nights. Probably the best Risa episode. Not that any of the others set a high bar.
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It sure was better than that dreadful DS9 one with Worf the luddite..
     
  3. BruntFCA

    BruntFCA Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah there are only about 5 DS9 episodes that I flat out dislike and "Let he who is without sin" is one of them.
     
  4. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder if Risa, which Memory Alpha says is also known as the Pleasure Planet, is perhaps the same world referred to by Darnell as Wrigley's Pleasure Planet in TOS: The Man Trap? Maybe Wrigley first charted it, or introduced the first chewing gum market there.

    It looks like in "Two Days..." the script originally said they went to Wrigley's, but someone decided it was too well known or sounded too close to be exotic, so it became Risa. Though it sounds more to me like it was their obsession with introducing 24th century concepts.
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The galaxy is FULL of pleasure planets Melakon.. no doubling up!
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The idea that Klingon first contact came 50 years prior to TOS was from a line in the "Day of the Dove" script, which never made it to air. It somehow found it's way into the 1993 Star Trek Chronology, despite being contradicted on-screen by Picard's comment in "First Contact" that Klingon first contact was "centuries ago". But then Picard said that first contact was a disaster which led to decades of war which led to the decision to surveil aliens before making contact, none of which happened in "Broken Bow"...
    I'm pretty sure the exact date is conjecture from the Chronology again. "The book" showed up as set decoration on the ECS Horizon in "Fortunate Son" - perhaps they'd already been there decades earlier and before subspace radio was invented?
     
  7. feek61

    feek61 Captain Captain

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    I believe you have TOS listed as fourth on your list, lol
     
  8. Goji

    Goji Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I gave up on Enterprise during its original run (though, honestly, that had way more to do with me being busy with night classes during its weekly broadcast than anything else, this was before I had anything like a DVR). I bought TOS (still the best of the shows, I have come to realize) and DS9 (the best of the spinoffs, and different enough to avoid direct comparisons anyway) on DVD as they were released and have been watching them regularly ever since.

    Earlier this year I wanted to get another series so I didn't end up watching TOS and DS9 to death (likely still a possibility, though). Voyager was never a contender (sorry, fans, half the cast annoys me and chief among them is Seven of Nine, so, that was never going to work out). At first I was leaning towards TNG but... yikes. I agree with whoever it was that said it has not held up at all. It has a handful of standout episodes, most of which it seems are clustered within only one of its seven broadcast seasons (the third, to erase all doubt) but the average TNG episode is boring enough to put me right to sleep.

    So I went with Enterprise and have been pretty pleasantly surprised. It's not without its flaws but I'd say it's much better than it has been made out to be, including in my own estimation in many years. I'd rank it third, after TOS and DS9 and ahead of Voyager and TNG. I do still like the movie "First Contact", though.
     
  9. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think TOS contradicts itself on subspace radio. The Horizon didn't have it yet the treaty that ended the Romulan War was negotiated over subspace radio. Both occurred around the same time. Though I suppose that if the Horizon was a civilian vessel (I don't recall if the designation USS was used in TOS: APotA)then they might not have had subspace radio as that may have been purely military tech at that time.

    I'm not sure about this but I think the book seen on Enterprise had a slightly different title than the one seen in A Piece of the Action.

    - edit - Just checked Memory Alpha and the books do have different titles. The ENT one says Chicago Gangs while the TOS one is Chicago Mobs. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chicago_Gangs
     
  10. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The more I read about it, the more it's clear that the studio really did fuck up this series. They rushed it into production to keep it's cash cow going and interfered at various times, like changing the ending of Dear Doctor. I've read that supposedly B and B wanted to set the first half of the season on Earth...that would have been a welcome change. But it turned out to be the same old shit.

    I'm not letting Berman and Braga off the hook. One person wrote it best a couple of years ago. In 2001, you had shows like 24 and Alias debut. Those shows did innovative things while Enterprise was still stuck in a 1980s way of doing television.
     
  11. E-DUB

    E-DUB Captain Captain

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    The way you succeed in anything, business, politics, anything, is by keeping your base and adding to it. ENT alienated hared-core fans while failing to attract new ones in significant numbers.

    Whose fault? Gotta say the suits. The proof, season 4. The suits had left the building by then, having decided that ENT was dead meat and that they only need enough eps to round out a syndication package. And in that atmosphere of benign neglect, the show flourished creatively. Oh, season 4 had its stinkers, to be sure. But if the entire show had been as good as season 4, it would have gotten seven years.
     
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A lot of people take their canon from the Chronology, the Encyclopedia and novel adaptations. I used to be one. Then I started checking the episodes. The syndication edits also play havoc with folks recollection of what's in an episode. I had no recollection of a Klingon appearing in "A Private Little War" until recently.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I still think ENT's take on Klingon first contact fits perfectly fine with what we were told in "First Contact." Because of humanity, the Klingons infected themselves with a super-virus that might have killed their entire species and permanently disfigured a large number of them. I'd say that's plenty of cause for distrust and animosity leading to decades of conflict.
     
  14. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, I may just be misinterpreting statements made in films or other episodes. It seemed to me the troublesome first contact with Klingons previously mentioned meant an immediate full scale war.
     
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That was a disaster. Pretty much every contact between the Klingons and the humans in the 22nd Century went badly. That probably didn't lead to the Klingons being too friendly with the UFP either.

    Of course who to say if it was human or even Federation first contact with the Klingons Picard was talking about. The origins of the surveillance, then contact rule might be a Vulcan concept that carried over into the Federation. The centuries of war might have been a Vulcan vs Klingon conflict. Enterprise and ST: First Contact would seem to support the idea the Vulcans liked to use surveillance when encountering new species.
     
  16. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    The Vulcans in ENT were definitely sneaky little bastards.
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You'll note I used kept in the past tense. And used the word "promotion" to describe VOY. ;) lol?