Enterprise, Star Trek Falling On It's Own Bat'Leth!

Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by jazzstick, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon
    Hey Everybody!

    I often wonder if the reason this show was not half as good as it could have been was because they wanted to kill the franchise off all together. Everytime I watch the show I see the array of talent that was on the writing staff and it doesn't add up. Is it possible that they just did a half assed job and fell on the Bath'Leth just to kill the whole thing off slowly?

    Your thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  2. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    I don't think the staff did it, it sure seems like it came from network higher ups, and their ridiculous notions of what would and wouldn't sell, what was and wasn't trendy, etc.

    Also the network was the one insisting on immediately going into production on ENT the second VOY was wrapped. No one else wanted that, not B&B, in the S2 docs even Scott Bakula says he tried to use his clout to tell the network to wait a while before starting ENT, to no avail. So they ended up pushing ENT through in the same year and burning everyone out.

    It sure sounds like the UPN/Paramount execs who watched Trek be a consistent cash cow throughout the '90s just couldn't see that it was being pushed too much. They just wanted another show using the same previously successful formula.

    Something that Gene Roddenberry was able to side-step by going the syndication route with TNG (and DS9), there was no network pushing him. Trek then being tied to a network (a mediocre one at that), UPN, really seems like a large portion of the undoing/oversaturation.

    In the Season 2 BD docs, one of the S1/S2 writing staff (Mike Sussman I think, can't remember now it's been over a week since I watched it) interviewed, says something like "we didn't set out to make a bad show".

    Braga and Berman both take some responsibility too. Braga still seems to take things very personally. He admits that he should have fought for a proper prequel more, when the network wanted more of the same (i.e. VOY style), instead he acquiesced and freely admits he shoehorned in the temporal cold war stuff to appease them.

    Berman also very briefly says perhaps he stuck a little to staunchly too his "What would Gene do?" mantra.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    As a series it was hit or miss. But I don't think anyone intentionally did bad work to get it cancelled. Why would someone rip up their own meal ticket?
     
  4. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Succinctly put :)
     
  5. feek61

    feek61 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Location:
    The Sunshine State
    Well why post such a baiting topic then? Do you go to the DS9 section or Voyager section and post how bad they are? It still amazes me how people want to talk about how bad something is instead of how good something else is. I guess I'm just different. I frankly don't care if you can't stand it or not but why post here? I can't even imagine myself going over to the DS9 section and posting about how much I hate it and how bad the acting and characters and stories and story arcs were. I don't get it.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    This! :techman:
     
  7. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon
    And there's the Heatâ„¢!



    I agree why rip up your own meal ticket, which would be my first thought but how could this show miss with those writers it just doesn't make any sense!

    Ok so if they didn't rip up their own meal ticket how do you explain the misses? Where they trying to make Star Trek more appealing to an audience outside the normal Trek watching group and it back fired?
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    There are lots of subforums and threads on this board on subjects that I either have no interest in, think were bad shows, or take positions I don't agree with.

    I don't feel the need to go dropping into those subforums or threads to create new threads to tell them so.
     
  9. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon

    Better???
     
  10. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Great... so now we have Star Trek conspiracy theories.

    While we're at it, Wolf 359 was an inside job!
     
  11. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Location:
    SB-31, Daran V
    To the OP: No. If Paramount/CBS, or whomever wanted to "kill the franchise" they could have simply just stopped making it. Period. Why spend the time. money and effort to "sink" something you don't have to build in the first place?

    As to the issue of posting negative comment: So, we should only post positive comments? I will agree that it's a bit douchy to deliberately troll a sub-forum to generate a crap-storm, but if I am partof a discussion about a particular program (even it that programs discussion forum), I will express myself honestly, as we all should.
     
  12. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon

    Well if you think about it....

    Trek has always been an example of a future where mankind over comes the issues that we have today, as well as a place of inspiration for those who made a lot of the technology we enjoy today.

    As Mark Twain put it in Times Arrow and I'm paraphrasing:

    "Rich men stand on the backs of the poor, and power is an end on to its, and you're telling me that's not how it is anymore?"


    A future that Star Trek shows would be a threat to those currently in power and trying to control socitiy and the media as well as those on top of the food chain so to speak. If this exsample of a better future was not around neither would the power it has to inspire! I guess this would only work if the work goverments started rounding up Trek DVDs but you see what I'm getting at, its not without its large flaws...
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  13. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Location:
    Location? What is this?
    I think the better way to phrase the question is:

    Why did the show get canceled in season 4 when all of the other spin-offs had 7 seasons?

    That offers the question without injecting your view of the people behind the show doing a "half assed job" (unless you were trying to get a rise out of people).

    Anyway, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess would be the ratings had something to do with it. And why were the ratings so low? People who love the series will tell you there are lots of factors (like over-saturation of Trek, studio interference, and other reasons). People who hate the show will tell you it's because the show sucked (and some people who say the show sucked didn't even watch all of it, and they admit it on this board)! And you know, it's kind of hard to blame its downfall on the series being lackluster when clearly the number of people tuning in for Trek was nosediving long before ENT. I would even argue that declining box office receipts for the TNG films contributed to the downfall of Trek on TV.

    Anyway, here are the ratings for your analyzing pleasure:

    [​IMG]

    And full disclosure: I enjoyed the series, and absolutely LOVED season 3!
     
  14. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Whatever happened to that guy? He disappeared in May.

    Oddly, although I wasn't seeing the graphic within the thread, when I quoted the comment, it appeared. Unless you changed the filename while I was typing this. And now I'm seeing after this post.
     
  15. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon

    Not trying to troll here guys, I like this forum I really want to add to the disscussion, I was however just sharing my honset opinion on the subject along with the question, I didn't think it would cause some of you to get your blue Trek panties in a bunch, please beleive me when I say that was not my intention!
     
  16. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon
    Thank you, many good points and an awnser I can dig!

    and for full disclosure as well, I watched them all myself and still didn't like it!
     
  17. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Studio/TV execs don't always like to take risks. If X has worked before they think it'll work again. Though what can happen is the audiance has moved on from X and is looking for Y.

    If a studio/TV exec takes a risk and it works everyone else copies it.
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Jazzstick, I think it's just that the folks who have been here for years (I'm not one of them), have seen this umpteen times. I know I've seen a lot similar threads in here, and I've been here less than 12 months. Usually though, it's some first-time cadet whose very first post on the board is how much he hates Enterprise.
     
  19. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon

    No I understand but trust me I'm no Cadet. If I could I would sit on my ass and talk Trek with my fellow Trekkies all day long, but I can't so this forum is the next best thing. I would hate to endanger that by living under bridges and eating people's skin, but I also want to be honset about how I feel about something that is very special and very important to me...
     
  20. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic Phloxist Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Location:
    feeding the cats again
    Eh, everyone has a right to their opinion, positive or negative. If there's one thing this forum is familiar with, it's negative opinions. C'mon, we have a new "TATV suxxx!!1!!" thread here every month or so. I love this show to pieces, but I also know it had its flaws, like any other show. I could ask for posters to try to take the emotion out of the mix and discuss things a little more objectively, but hey, this is Star Trek. It's a very passionate fandom. And Enterprise did not have a good death or a dignified exit, in the opinion of some, including me. Oh, how I wish we'd had 3 more seasons. :(

    This is a discussion board, so a variety of opinions are welcome. I'll be happy if folks refrain from trying to bash each other over the head with their viewpoints and stay respectful of others even when you don't agree. Okay?

    As for the OP, I don't think any self-respecting writer sets out to do bad work. But alas, professional writing by assignment isn't done in a vacuum. There are so many other people who have input and/or approval, whether they know effective story structure or not. And there are budget considerations, time constraints (especially in TV), network suits sticking their noses into things, and so forth. Add a fledgling network, inconsistent advertising, constant preemptions, and the everpresent threat of cancellation, and that will have an impact on the storytelling as well.

    I assume the writers did they best they could given the circumstances. Many writers will be the first to tell you what didn't work about a story, and how they wish they'd had an extra week or a freer hand to fix it. But I think Enterprise had many outstanding episodes.
     

Share This Page