Enterprise Cutaway Coming From Dragon Models

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Racer_X, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Well, if we're going to drag opinion into this, then I am a huge fan of FJ's work. The Technical Manual and the Booklet of General Plans are both incredible triumphs in terms of sheer creativity and professionalism and they exhibit a very logical thought process--one which set a high bar for technical fiction, indeed, practically inventing the genre. I have nothing but praise for FJ's work and still regularly look through both of them... far more often than I peruse the pages of the flashier, newer stuff like the DS9 tech manual or even the TNG TM. In fact, it's fair to say that my private Star Trek universe that exists in my brain skews more towards the FJ material than what we did see on the show...

    ...which brings me to the next point.

    If we look over the FJ work and compare them to what most fans would look for in something like this--fidelity to what was shown on-screen--then FJ is hardly definitive. His work is plainly, objectively, at variance with the source material. He personally stated, more than once, than he was drawing the ship as he thought it should be, as a real life engineer, rather than sticking slavishly to what appeared on-screen. And the differences are so extensive that any but the most casual observer will start picking out the differences one at a time. If you do what I have done (and plenty of others even on this board) and compare it all to stuff from the show, you'll eventually find that not a single page actually definitively matches anything on the show.

    It's all close, but the FJ stuff is explicitly a gentle re-imagining.

    That's all I'm saying...

    --Alex
     
  2. Lenny Nurdbol

    Lenny Nurdbol Lieutenant Commander

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    Here it goes again, the old bait and switch... Top paragraph: "I'm a huge fan of FJ's work..." Bottom paragraph: "FJ didn't know jackshit..."

    Kinda reminds me of another thread somewhere... Yeah, substitute JD for FJ!

    Listen, you show me Better blueprints of the old Enterprise and I'll listen to you... I'm not talking about Exteriors (we've plenty of them) but ones with DECK Plans... I've gone through many of them and none beat FJ's... Oh, you can argue about no "warp core" in there--but Treknical fans of old do not believe in such a contraption Within the hull but intermix chambers in the nacelles...which is also where the antimatter is stored (much safer that way)... And no life boats: Treknical fans of old believed the turbolift cars served as ejectable lifeboats...

    Yes, it's a matter of Interpretation...but if the best you can come up with is a jazzed up blueprint set from Strategic Design or what have you published within the last decade or so, then it's a case of too little WAY TOO LATE, since the FJ blueprints served as Guides for many, MANY Trek authors and fans and modellers and Gamers for DECADES...

    Just as the "prime" universe got flushed down a galactic toilet, you'd best concentrate on the latest and greatest Enterprise right now... You know, with the Apple Store upstairs, the Brewery downstairs, and that insane hangar deck with pylons blocking the way...
     
  3. Blip

    Blip Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Edit - ignore. I actually can't be bothered. Suffice it to say though, Lenny your overbloated theatrics put me right off this entire thread.
     
  4. nightwind1

    nightwind1 Commodore Commodore

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    It's been that way ever since FidoNET and USENet.
     
  5. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    --Shouldn't use quotation marks for something that's not a quote. I find your remarks unfair, vitriolic, and totally unfounded. If you actually read my post, you may have noticed that I never once even implied that 'FJ didn't know jack,' but, rather, that he chose to take some creative licence with the designs. That's a real big difference.

    --Here you seem to imply that the newer measured drawings of the Enterprise are more accurate than what appeared in the FJ work... what gives?

    --Oh yeah, I agree that none of the published stuff I've ever seen is as complete as the FJ stuff. He was nothing if not thorough, which is part of why his material is so great.

    --The heck!?!? Where did I say anything about a warp core? I post quite a lot on Trek Tech and over in Trek Art, and, if you've ever followed any of the discussions in which I've participated, you might find that I'm a strong proponent of "fuel + reactors in the nacelles where MJ said they were." You're on a rant for no good reason!

    --According to FJ, the only lifeboat functions were that the saucer could be separated and could support the entire crew as a lifeboat or the secondary hull could support the entire crew under emergency conditions. Geoffrey Mandel's Enterprise Officer's Manual put forth the idea that the turbolifts could be used as escape pods. It's kind of a clever idea but that's the only place I've seen it. Which makes it the outlier. The same book also suggested that the entire "command gondola" (the teardrop section beneath the bridge) could also be ejected and act as a lifeboat. Again, that's the only place that idea shows up. FJTM and TMoST both only mention the saucer separation option for lifeboating...

    --I've never actually seen the TOS E from Strategic Design. But I do agree with you that FJ's work inspired uncountable creative works by plenty of Trek fans, myself included.

    The thing is that FJ had only the following reference items:
    --Film frames in slide form from the Franklin Mint
    --The book The Making of Star Trek
    --The AMT model kit of the Enterprise
    --Catching the show on TV during it's syndication re-runs

    Given what he had to work with, the work he finished was outstanding. In a class by itself.

    But, the wealth of information we have today, the ability to screen-grab any frame from the show, the additional behind the scenes information that has been released since the mid-70's... Today, we just have so much more to go go on than he did. There are two projects on TrekBBS, by blssdwlf and Robert Comsol that are both interpreting, in different ways, versions of the interior of the ship that match not only the appearance of the sets as they appeared on screen, but even making sure that they match the dialogue and the editing as best as possible. These are on their way to becoming a much more definitive version of what was seen on Star Trek than FJ was able to do. Or, even intended to do. And, I might add, that both of those guys are takingcare to use just information from TOS... no ret-conning.

    I'm not a fan of the new version of the ship. But, it seems that a lot of people aren't. I don't know if you follow the merchandising of Star Trek right now, but the most of it is stuff that ties into Shatner's Kirk and crew and Stewart's Picard and company. J.J. Trek gets a bit of love here and there, but I'm surprised just how much the Prime universe gets paid attention to by the marketers, especially with the new movies just weeks away.

    --Alex
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    You might want to re-read Albertese's post because at no point did he say anything like "FJ didn't know jackshit."

    I'm curious if you've seen Matt Jefferies original Enterprise cutaway? You know, that 20-deck one that appears in The Making of Star Trek. That's how the man who designed the USS Enterprise envisioned her interior. Surely he's the guy who should have final say on the interior of his ship?
     
  7. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bless anyone who gives a good effort at trying a cut away
     
  8. Lenny Nurdbol

    Lenny Nurdbol Lieutenant Commander

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    Yeah, and nobody follows that one either, just like the shuttlecraft drawings... Some things just don't work out to be practical when taken to the next level, like actual deck plans... Bottom line: the exterior has to match the Interior sets, and to do so usually means the draftsman has to Compromise somewhere, and That's where all sorts of nasty little disagreements start to surface among fans, screaming that this or that isn't accurate! Well, you just can't have it Both ways sometimes...

    And remember also that Jefferies is the guy who put photo torpedo tubes in the Upper primary hull--a fact that fans too young to have been alive back then have bitched about--and unfairly blamed--FJ for...
     
  9. Lenny Nurdbol

    Lenny Nurdbol Lieutenant Commander

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    Regarding some earlier posts...

    1. I was, of course, paraphrasing "jack shit" so don't quote me on it... I was emphasizing the Attitude, nothing more...

    2. I'm new here, cut me some slack...

    3. As I've said, FJ's got the best overall blueprints and they've withstood the test of time... You got better? Show me 'em... I've gone over different ones put together in recent years and they vary in quality and often seem to leave important things out (like life support systems in one!)... Seems kinda late (like close to 50 years) to go back and change something that's been around so long...and on an Old ship... And after various decks and compartments were referenced in countless novels and novelizations over such a period of time... And after the blueprints inspired Other blueprints which used the same format... And, and, and...
     
  10. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Bless anyone who makes the attempt at bringing a thoroughly derailed thread back on topic. :)

    Although I wouldn't necessary call this cut away effort good...Just my opinion, though. :whistle:
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Since you asked for it, there you go:

    [​IMG]

    (latest addition to my TOS Enterprise deck plan thread, post # 156)

    If you mean "better" like in "looking better" I will not take part in such a debate because it'll be a question of personal taste and I rather devote my time to assemble the deck plans.

    If you mean "better" like in "screen-accurate" I've just provided an example. ;)

    Bob
     
  12. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    I didn't know that starships had flying walls! :D :p
     
  13. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    See? There you go! That's great. Finally getting up to the saucer, huh?? Love it.

    --Alex
     
  14. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  15. QuinnTV

    QuinnTV Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  16. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, that is a terrific extrapolation of Matt Jeffries' original cutaway. Any chance of seeing more detailed views some day?
     
  17. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    I've always loved how it brilliantly solves the "where's engineering" problem that has often plagued this and other Treknology boards. Although I do have to ask...where's the bowling alley?
     
  18. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In the primary hull, just above the weapons decks, is the TAS holodeck. I envisioned that as having a program like Hyperbowl only totally 3D and immersive. So, you could bowl in a 20th century bowling alley or on the Appian Way in ancient Rome or on a bowling green in colonial New Amsterdam or in a mudbath with the Prime Sus of Tellar.
     
  19. Masao

    Masao Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Anti-Tellar bias!!! Next you'll be telling us that M'Ress poops in a big box of sand! Shame!

    (:) as if adding this were necessary)
     
  20. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    AH yes, the TAS holodeck - forgot about that one. I notice a lot of other little TAS callouts on there as well. Quite possibly one of the best cutaways of the Connie since FJ - well done! :)