Enterprise as a prequel to the reboot movies?

Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by borgboy, Jul 20, 2014.

  1. VST

    VST Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The only reason the NX isn't on the ENT-D's wall is because the ship hadn't been invented yet! :D

    This is what I mean about suspension of belief. You have to factor that in.
     
  2. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    But that is mixing up in-universe information with series production information! It's like using Picard's appearance and title credit to "prove" that he is a clone of the 20th century actor Patrick Stewart. ;)

    I can suspend my disbelief when it comes to the look of the different shows and movies - after all, how something appears on the surface is not always an indication of how advanced it is. But mixing and matching in/out info to "explain" a discrepency does more than blurr the lines, it causes those metaphorical walls to come smashing down.

    ANARCHY!!!
     
  3. VST

    VST Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You have to though, otherwise you end up nitpicking & crucifying elements that only don't exist because they weren't actually thought of at that point. That way madness lies. :D
     
  4. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Sometimes maybe, but with the wall display on the E-D (and indeed the refit) we don't need to descend into madness just yet, as no-one ever explicitly denied the existence of Archer and his ship; it simply wasn't there. :)
     
  5. VST

    VST Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well exactly. Hence why it makes no sense worrying about it at all.
     
  6. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    As the above posts have shown, there could be any number of in-universe reasons why the NX-01 wasn't shown on either the E-D's or the E-E's toy ship display. The TV-production reason certainly isn't the only one.

    As for worrying about such details, that's what we do here! :rofl:
     
  7. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes, the definition of the word is strong evidence against Enterprise being a prequel to two movies that were made ten years afterwards. (A prequel is a type of sequel, not the opposite of one.)

    Sorry to be "that guy". :evil:
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But VST it is possible to go too far in the other direction. So it's a matter of where you as the fan draw the line.

    For example, I can accept that two different actors play Pavel Chekov, but I can't simply accept that the two Chekov's were in-universe born in different years.

    That violates my personal "suspension of belief" threshold.

    So when you say we should simply accept contradictions in set decoration, I (with due respect) disagree with you. I think this is something that we can and should discuss here.

    It's a legitimate subject.

    You've only been here eight days, just wait for us to get into something like the thread count in the Bill Theiss costumes.

    :)
     
  9. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Nit: The phrase is "suspension of disbelief." It indicates the audience's willingness to go along with something make-believe, and hold back denial. Teh Wiki.
     
  10. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    With things like relativity, and in a universe jam-packed with temporal anomalies, do we know for sure both Chekov's weren't born at the same time?

    The old prequel novel Enterprise: The First Adventure did something similar with Janice Rand. Chronologically she was old enough to join Starfleet (and did), but biologically she was only 15 at the time.
     
  11. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Another option is that it is a different person that is named Pavel. He is actually what would have been the Prime Universe's Pavel's older brother. Since the time change was 2233, it is possible that the paths of Pavel's parents crossed slightly differently, or one of their earlier attempts at children was a success where in the Prime Universe it was a failure. This a man is born to the Chekov family four years earlier and named Pavel. It is unknown at this time if they had a second son born in 2245.

    So technically, it is not the same Chekov, but he's raised more or less the same and it is possibly this one is brighter than the other one. I don't recall the Prime Pavel every trying to beam anyone up, much less doing it on the fly. Nor try to run Engineering. he did follow Spock I the sciences somewhat, but was also Navigator, Weapons Officer, Security, and Command chain, reaching first officer of USS Reliant (and technically commanding officer on the death of the ship's Captain...though it was in Kahn's hands by then...he shot down his own Command).
     
  12. AirCommodore

    AirCommodore Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I never had a problem with that. If the family had the name "Pavel" picked out, then any son they had, was going to be Pavel Chekov. All of your siblings come from the same parents, but they look different from each other. Only that one sperm and that one egg on that night would make you. Any other sperm and egg on that night, or any other, makes the equivalent of a sibling. If the parents planned on always naming a son after a particular grandfather, for instance, the same name would have been used no matter what son comes out, without regard for which egg and sperm did the job in whatever particular year.

    James T Kirk however, already conceived before the timeline split, should look the same. Unless this is an alternate universe that Spock and Nero entered. In which case, the place where future Spock now lives never was the Prime Universe. It always was different, albeit very close. This is slightly undermined by them having Future Spock recognize everyone when he should not have been able to.
     
  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I dislike that option as much as I do the idea that Leonard Nimoy isn't playing the Spock from TOS but some other random version.

    Of course Chekov is supposed to be Chekov. He was Spock's fill-in at the science station during TOS, so he was obviously smart (even if he had the common sense of a turnip). He also switched careers to security chief for while, no simple feat (or at least, it shouldn't be). The new Chekov appears to lean toward engineering rather than the Sciences and weapons of his predecessor. For all we know, he flipped a coin to determine which subjects he'd take at the Academy beside starship navigation.
     
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought Janice Rand was supposed to be Kirk's contemporary in (biological) age, within a few tears. With the original idea that they were going to be confidants.

    Whitney is a year older than Shatner.
    :)
     
  15. VST

    VST Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh I totally agree these things can be worth discussing--it's part of the fun, after all--but as someone who's never been a 'nitpicker', it gets a bit wearing sometimes.

    To use your example - the difference with Chekov is that changing that fundamental year is something that could have been consciously handled. It doesn't bother me in the slightest but I totally get why, as a fan, it could piss you off - the producers could have made it synch. In comparison, the NX model created in 2001 not being on the wall of a series that ended in 1994... to try & debate that to me is just silly - you have to step back & accept the reality there, as I mentioned, that it's only not there because it hadn't been invented yet.

    That's just my take though. I accept many see it differently. :)
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Commodore Commodore

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    Indeed. After the attack on the Kelvin, I see Starfleet pushing towards more specialization in training, and wanting bigger and better starships to counter threats. Engineering would be in high demand, and require a large skill in math, as would navigation. The two are not as separate as one would think.

    Also, I would imagine a push to have people training at younger ages, especially when potential was recognized, to serve the Federation better.

    Heck, Pike might be like modern college coaches who travel to high schools for recruiting. He saw Chekov's scores and said to himself, "Time to see what this kid is all about."

    Or, perhaps, Chekov is a Changeling. We can always through that in there ;)
     
  17. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There was no NX-01 on the "Enterprise" displays on the refit or the "D" not because that ship didn't exist in the original timeline but because, in the original timeline it wasn't named Enterprise. It received that name in the altered "First Contact" timeline because of Cochran's gratitude to the crew of the Enterprise-D for helping with the launch of the Phoenix. I maintain that in the real original timeline, that ship was called the "Dauntless". By the way, has anybody tried factoring in the Henry Starling computer revolution in all this?
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Hey, if we're talking about a "real original" timeline, we have to go back millions of years and undo all the stuff the people who invented the Guardian of Forever likely did to the timeline... it would probably be completely unrecognizable.
     
  19. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    I've decided:

    Pre-"First Contact", NX-01 was named Dauntless. Cochrane, in appreciation for what Picard and crew did, used his clout to get the Warp Five Project's starship named Enterprise.

    JJ Abrams version of Star Trek takes place in a completely alternate timeline. The major changes created by Nero's & Spock's arrival not only affected the future, but affected the past as well. Due to the erasure of the time-travel events of the Prime timeline's post-2233, the pre-2233 sections of said time-travel events were also erased. So because the timeline changed in both directions as soon as Nero appeared, as soon as the "red hole" dumped out Spock and closed, the JJ-timeline separated from the Prime timeline into its own continuity entirely.
     
  20. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is my thought as well.



    :)