Ending the Dominion war sooner

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by G2309, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. G2309

    G2309 Captain Captain

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    In WYLB when Odo heal the female changling I wondered how many lives could be savd if they tried it sooner.
    I don't mean just sending them a cure but doing it in exchange for diarmemant.
    It put the Federation in a very strong position. Losing a war or the extinction of your race? Not much of a choice.
     
  2. Dancing Doctor

    Dancing Doctor Admiral Admiral

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    The Federation Council debated whether or not to give the Dominion the cure to the morphogenic virus, but decided against it as they felt it would give the Dominion "the upper hand" in the war.

    It'd be like the Allies finding out that all of the senior Nazi leadership has AIDS or syphilis, and, despite having developed a cure, decided not to hand it over.
     
  3. pimp

    pimp Commander Red Shirt

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    Well from a strategic point of view it is correct in not sending a cure to the dominion and save the founders simply because there is no trust therefore in their position the federation had every right to keep it away from them simply because there is a potential to give strength to the dominion and possible outcome might not be peace. Thats how I would see it from their point of view.

    Also when Odo linked with the female changeling did he not give some kind of clarity to her when they linked, like he convinced her it was the right thing to do (this is just my thoughts and not sure if true) or did he simply just cure her and she realized it had to end for the sake of her people?? (which is sort of the same)
     
  4. Rom's Sehlat

    Rom's Sehlat Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My understanding of the linking with the female changeling was that there was more to their conversation. It's supposed to be beyond the average viewer's understanding. Remember how Odo said, "Trust me" to Kira and Garak? For all we know, he could have made all sorts of promises about the negotiations or something. He could have let her win at tic-tac-toe. Or shown her the Federation's amiability to their enemies when hostilities are over. Or told her the reason the Gamma quadrant wasn't coming to their aid was because very powerful beings (that some people considered gods) were blocking them. Who knows?

    Perhaps he had convinced her that the Feds were more fanatical in defending themselves than the Jem'Hadar were in attacking them. Well, that wouldn't have bothered her. She wasn't here to assimilate them, just take over anything left standing afterward.
     
  5. G2309

    G2309 Captain Captain

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    I remember all this.I didn't mean just giving them the cure. But exchanging it after they disarmed their foces.
     
  6. Dancing Doctor

    Dancing Doctor Admiral Admiral

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    It might have. However, remember that the real deciding factor was that Odo would be coming back to the Link. That was what swayed the Female Changeling. Getting cured was just an added benefit.
     
  7. TeutonicNights

    TeutonicNights Commander Red Shirt

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    So the Federation council officially refused to end a genocide that their own citizens have committed?

    Imo the DS9 writers went too far here/screwed up.
     
  8. Dancing Doctor

    Dancing Doctor Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think the Council knew about or were given the origins of the virus, though.

    All they knew was that there was a virus, and that Bashir had a cure.
     
  9. TeutonicNights

    TeutonicNights Commander Red Shirt

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    Alright. Still, the thought of the Federation Parliament saying Genocide is alright as long it suits them and even tho they got the cure right there is somewhat ridiculous.

    Knowing about the cure, but not telling anyone is one thing (and already problematic for the Feds I'd guess), but the freakin council officially making such decisions in front of everyone?
     
  10. Dancing Doctor

    Dancing Doctor Admiral Admiral

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    The Founders were out to completely dominate and rule the Alpha Quadrant and/or wipe out those who wouldn't submit.

    Why should you feel inclined to help your enemy in such circumstances?
     
  11. Rom's Sehlat

    Rom's Sehlat Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Founders were smart enough to design whole species with genetic engineering but they can't develop a cure for a virus?
     
  12. G2309

    G2309 Captain Captain

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    TNG did the same. With Picard being criticised for not taking a chance to commit genocide against the Borg in "I Borg"
     
  13. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    War is ugly business. They often aren't won by doing nice things, IMO, so sometimes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't...
     
  14. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You're all anthropomorphising the situation. Nobody talks about genocide when refering to antibiotic usage. The survival of our species and the species we work together with was/is at stake - threatened by another form of life that wants to destroy us.
     
  15. Tulaberry whine

    Tulaberry whine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's one thing for DS9 and Trek to be a positive, idealised vision of the future but to complain about this is to want a fantasy.

    No government in the same position as the Federation council - no matter how idealised - would have handed over that cure.
     
  16. TeutonicNights

    TeutonicNights Commander Red Shirt

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    I still think the Feds knew about section 31 being behind this (simply because Bahir told them). But if the parliament debates over this, wouldn't the world know about this whole affair afterwards? Or are those secret deliberations only high ranking military people like Sisko know about?

    About antibiotics
    The thing about bacteria is that they don't enjoy human rights, but STVI for example leads us to believe that (most?) sentient aliens enjoy those rights in the Trek future as well (and I can see how the Borg could be counted as an exception).
     
  17. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Why can the Borg be an exception but not the Founders? They are "different enough" from the average Humanoid species. To paraphrase "Humanoid Rights, the very name is racist"
     
  18. JB2005

    JB2005 Commodore Commodore

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    The Founders were a slightly more direct threat than the borg...
     
  19. Rom's Sehlat

    Rom's Sehlat Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    How so? Please explain how the Founders are more of a threat than the Borg?
     
  20. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've argued this before, but killing the high command of an enemy nation, regardless of their numbers, is not genocide, at least not under a criminal definition.

    The Founders are a species, so the word "genocide" can serve merely descriptive definition, but their peculiar biology and social system makes them a lot more like high government officials than the German people at large. At worst, it's an assassination, although I prefer to think of it as a counterpower attack (that is, an attack designed to disrupt the ability of government to continue functioning, in many ways similar to rapid dominance tactics); it is certainly not a criminal genocide--it is perhaps criminal that the tactic was used as part of a first strike (and that too is arguable). But even assuming the Federation did use it in a first strike, the Federation would then only be guilty of aggression--but not genocide.

    An analogous situation would be a British chemical weapon introduced by a secret agent at the Hugo Boss factory in 1938 that gave everybody in an SS uniform cancer.