Endgame was awesome!

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Vulcan Logician, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, you're right there. But there's an exception to every rule. Besides, it's the next gen era Admirals that are truly morally defunct. Though in my TOS recollection there were a few "bad apple" Admirals as well. Maybe Starfleet was just beginning to implement its "evil Admiral" protocols and by the time TNG hit, it was standard procedure.

    (I think I'm due for a TOS rewatch)
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Evil admiral replaced evil commodore after that rank was eliminated. Evil Lionel Richie got a cushy new promotion.
     
  3. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    :rommie:
     
  4. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That's right. Evil commodore. After the rank was eliminated, the Admirals became the hotbed of well-intentioned moral depravity.
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe because it is SO boring not working for money and better houses etc.. that they need to do something to distract from the truth that they did all that paperwork for no more reward than they'd have gotten for waiting tables?
     
  6. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    ^It is an oft tossed-around idea in modern psychology that boredom is the root of all evil.
     
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hm.

    Boredom causes evil.
    Immortality is largely boredom.

    This explains a great deal...
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    God is dead. Nietzsche killed it. :p
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Todd Nietzsche?

    How the fuck do you know my dry cleaner?
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Dry cleaning creeps me out. But if someone can connect it to the abyss I might find something redeeming about it.
     
  12. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nietzsche is dead God.

    Just saying if there is something up above hedge accordingly!
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hedge?
     
  14. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes. haven't you read Pascal, Teacake? God is the more profitable end of some kind of wager. (Or something). I'm an atheist, so I don't gamble.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I have not read Pascal but I have read that Pascal quote which is one of those things so many are fond of quoting.
     
  16. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    ^ Your not missing much.
     
  17. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Nietzsche, on the other hand, is worth reading. I don't like his ideas, but they are worthy.
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I have gleaned ALL the wisdom I need from 15 years of people's sig lines. That's where it's all distilled, the good bits. Just skip all the other stuff and get to the soundbites.
     
  19. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm almost finished with my VOY 3rd run and look forward to posting my thoughts on the OP after I rewatch endgame (while taking notes).

    As far as wisdom goes, Teacake, you might very well glean a greater wisdom from sigs than from Plato, Pascal, or Nietzsche. That's the cool thing about wisdom. That's why philosophy is always exploring. And that's why I love wisdom.
     
  20. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Okay, I reiterate the thesis I made in the OP. I'm fresh off watching Endgame and it is even more awesome to me now.

    Let's look at some of the arguments against it.

    "detractor": The Borg were feeble and their vessels were able to be destroyed with a single torpedo.

    me: Yes, but these were "futuristic" torpedoes developed by the Federation specifically to thwart the Borg. It makes sense that if they were taken back in time they would handily destroy Borg cubes. Even such, Old Janeway fears that the Borg could easily adapt if they didn't finish the mission soon.

    "detractor": Old Janeway destroyed the timeline and altered the course of history. An action she condemns in earlier episodes.

    me: I concede this point to a certain degree, but your voice is still "whiny". Deviation from predictability makes for awesome episodes and Endgame is no exception. Would you rather have Janeway behaving in a completely predictable way for VOY's final episode? No. If that were the case, you would be complaining about THAT.

    "detractor": We didn't get to see Voyager reunite with Earth.

    me: It's okay. It would have been nice to see, but, hey, Endgame was still awesome. I'm happy. I have attained closure. All is well.

    I do concede that these arguments are valid to some extent. There are other "nitpicky" arguments that are just as valid (such as the convenience of a wormhole that leads to Earth and why, if such a wormhole existed, Earth hadn't been handily assimilated). But look. It's TREK not the bible. It doesn't have to be perfect. Science fiction always requires some suspension of disbelief.

    Even with these "flaws" Endgame tells a compelling story. A captain who, out of loyalty to her crew and a (misplaced) sense of guilt decides to violate protocol and perhaps her own sense of morality to make things right. She escapes Federation and Klingon pursuers to ultimately overcome the Borg and attain her goal. It's action-packed, Old Janeway is just as awesome as Normal Janeway and the crew finally gets home in an exiting and unpredictable fashion. Plus we get to see Janeway sacrifice herself AND survive to get the crew home.

    I'd like to end my thoughts on this thread with my key point:

    "Endgame was awesome!"

    EDIT: "detractor" used to read "whiny voice"
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013