Endgame and the Unicomplex (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Hoshi3, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. Hoshi3

    Hoshi3 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Admiral Janeway went back in time to get Voyager home early. While doing that, she also destroyed the Unicomplex. The thing is, it doesn't really make sense. Since Voyager got home earlier than they should have, admiral Janeway would most likely not have gone to the past and never have destroyed the Unicomplex. Right? :confused:
     
  2. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it's a classic paradox, which is often the problem in time travel stories.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Most Trek time travels don't work like that. What winds up in that past, stays in the past and usually nothing vanishes. Cos if you think about it, if Admiral Janeway vanished, then she'd never have gone back in time and Voyager would never get back early and the whole thing undoes itself.:cardie:
     
  4. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I once tried to write a story where the Enterprise-D was knocked forward in time while monitoring the test of a new propulsion system. In that future, the Federation, the Klingon, and the Romulan Empires didn't exist because Enterprise wasn't around to defeat a new threat to the galaxy. But I couldn't figure a way out of the box. While I was working on it, TNG: New Ground aired with a similar subplot of a new propulsion system, so I gave up. I was trying to write spec scripts at the time, and each time I'd get halfway through one, there'd be an episode or preview with elements of whatever story I was working on at the time. It happened at least 3 times, so at least I knew I was on the right wavelength.
     
  5. Lt. Uhura-Brown

    Lt. Uhura-Brown Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If she'd arrived three days before Voyager encountered the transwarp hub instead of three days after, the entire situation could have been avoided.

    Set up the Bat-Voyager, then second aperture to the right and straight on 'til home.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hoshi, the answer to your question is: Sela Yar.

    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeanwhile...

    Had KJ appeared on scene 6 days earlier, then Joe wouldn't be breathing dirt.

    Maybe 8 days?

    9 at a stretch.

    The Destruction of the Unicomplex and accompanying regicide did not require Voyagers participation in the slightest.

    If the Admiral killed the Queen, and the Borg fell to pieces a week before Janeway found the Hub, wouldn't the crew have been able to do wonders after they found the powered down hub and dozens of out of comission Cubes in that Nebula?

    Although dealing with the hub and whatever junkyard doglike parasitic power resided near by thinking they could salvage the Hub since it's literally legal fricking Salvage after the Borg had all died, wouldn't that have been a pefect bookend for what happened with Caretakers Array?

    "Sigh".

    Although they couldn't call the Hub an Array.

    Say this word out loud and try not to smirk... Borgarray.

    Doesn't it sound almost like Buggery?

    For years we've been saying that there was criminaly no pink agenda on Voayger, and this just goes one step further proving that the producers were deathly affraid of introducing the audience to a familiarity with Borgarray.
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just look at how they dealt with the time travel paradoxes in Relativity. All kinds of random crap going on... they don't care. ;)
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There were no paradoxes in Relativity.

    They kept writing over timelines with new continuity.

    Of course, if you're outside time or shielded, you don't get overwrit when your history disappears from underneath your footing.
     
  9. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    they didn't have any paradoxes in relativity
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    But that wasn't part of Admiral Janeway's original plan. She had no interest in hurting or destroying the Borg, only in allowing the hero ship to safely slip into one of those transwarp conduits.

    Arriving early and destroying the hub wouldn't really meet the Admiral's primary goal of getting Tuvok home in time for his pills. At least not assuredly so...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    Exactly, she didn't want to go after the Borg, she kind of flipped a bit when young janeway suggested it. She brought the torpedoes and armor so they could zoom past any cubes and go right into the hub
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She was a lying trollop.

    If the former science officer of the Al-Batani was too fricking stupid to notice that her cloak was incompatible with Voyager, take a step back and wonder what other holes there are in her master plan that aren't so easy to spy?

    Sneak through = Cloak.

    Fight through and destroy the Borg = Batmobile armour and torpedoes.

    Hell.

    It only would have been 50 trips at most, and taken a couple days if Janeway had just slipped the crew home in her cloaked shuttle through the Borg transwarp network piecemeal, if they had decided to leave Voyager behind. And you know that that means that they'd have to scuttle it... The Doctor is an idiot from eye of the Needle thinking that he would just hang out in Sick bay forever after the ship had been abandoned.

    Janeway is egregious and difficult.

    She resists the will of her betters who know better.

    Janeway knows this.

    So Janeway gave Janeway something to rebel against, forcing her to do exactly what her older self always wanted her to do, by insisting that that is NOT what she wanted to do.
     
  13. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    I hate Temporal mecahnics.

    But what should have happend is in the future starfleet would have monitored Janeway's escapdes and sent back people to undo her changes. After all VOY introduced the concept that in the future the Federation monitors the timeline so "Endgame" should never have happened and VOY should still be on her way home.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But there are whales in the 24th century.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  15. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Guess we're screwed if the dodo birds send a giant probe.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway goes back to get a Dodo... Captain Braxton stands there between she and the last Dodo arms folded with a disapproving scowl on his face.

    2 whales are not going to bring back the species.

    3 counting the kid.

    Now either the Federation council sent back hundreds, perhaps thousands of more missions into the past to harvest more whales of several subspecies... Or they cloned the shit of all the detritus from the museums... Or even cloned all the whales from the past, rather than actually bringing them forward, because what if the whales never died out, but they all just jumped forward?

    Point is... Man had the technology to revive any and all extinct species which they had dna for, and chose not to. They must have rules about playing god and dead is dead, because lets face it, if they're bringing back so many, many, many, many animals through cloning, how long until they start bringing back human celebrities as clones?

    Slippery slope.

    Although...

    Terraforming.

    Hundreds of planets by the end of the 23rd century would have been seeded with cloned Terranian wildlife including whales, surely?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  17. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway, Borgarrays/buggerys, and giant probes. What's going on here?
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's why she can't wear a miniskirt.
     
  19. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

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    Except that they didn't. Which leads me to believe that in the Admiral's time line The Temporal Investigation department didn't exist. In other words the Admiral corrected the time line, and the case can be made using canon fact that even the Q meant Janeway to use that hub and in doing so cripple the Borg. Remember a couple of episodes earlier Q gave Janeway a course correction.
     
  20. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    According to the novel DTI: Watching the Clock...
    The 29th and 31st century time cops don't stop Admiral Janeway, and they actually block the 24th century Department of Temporal Investigations from pressing charges against Captain Janeway, because without their actions in "Endgame", which lead to the events of the Destiny novels, the Borg would have assimilated the entire galaxy by the year 2600. In other words, the time cops' only exist because Janeway broke the Temporal Prime Directive. This knowledge causes Agent Lucsley to have a mini breakdown.
     

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