EM Drive To Receive Peer Review

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Dryson, Sep 3, 2016.

  1. Dryson

    Dryson Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    NASA's EMDrive And The Quantum Theory Of Pilot Waves

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/brianko...e-quantum-theory-of-pilot-waves/#660018451721

    There has been a lot of digital ink spilled over the recent paper on the reactionless thrust device known as the EMDrive. While it's clear that a working EM Drive would violate well established scientific theories, what isn't clear is how such a violation might be resolved. Some have argued that the thrust could be an effect of Unruh radiation, but the authors of the new paper argue instead for a variation on quantum theory known as the pilot wave model.

    Maybe there is a hidden wave length the is creating a force against the microwaves or vice versus where the microwave is placing a force on a hidden wave length on the quantum level.

    Since the net thrust cannot be determined with the standard model then the quantum model must hold the answers.
     
  2. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Always with the quantum waves, Moriarty. Always with the quantum waves.

    Why can't the designer explain how it works? His microwave oven and some copper mugs didn't just fall off the kitchen shelf in a fit of accidental appliance procreation like peanut butter and chocolate having Reese's Cup babies. It was intentionally designed and built, yet can't be explained. A gift from aliens?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
  3. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
  4. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    The universe didn't build the drive. The universe built the person who built the drive. The math existed before the drive. That's what engineers do.

    :rolleyes:
     
  5. psCargile

    psCargile Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    GA
    Go to EMdrive.com. Shawyer says radiation pressure is the basis for the design.

    But it's not jumping off the table and slamming into the wall. If he is correct—and there is plenty of reason for doubt—I don't see how it's going to scale up to usable thrust velocities for practical use.
     
  6. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    In your head, doing stuff...
    I wouldn't bet the farm or even £1 on it actually working.
     
    psCargile likes this.
  7. psCargile

    psCargile Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    GA
    At first I was hopefully skeptical, but I'm not sold on it.

    Wonder if there is any variation of thrust between east-west and north-south orientations? Maybe it's countering the Earth's rotation? :lol:
     
  8. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    In your head, doing stuff...
    EM interaction with the Earth's magnetic field, EM interaction with the power cables or ablation of the outer surface due to heating -- any of those could produce a minuscule thrust even in a vacuum.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  9. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    I believe orientation was tested.
     
  10. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    In your head, doing stuff...
    Well, it's claimed that the Chinese are going to test the drive in space. I'll believe it works when they use it to colonise the solar system.
     
  11. psCargile

    psCargile Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    GA
    Unshielded cables! O! The humanities!
     
  12. Dryson

    Dryson Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
  13. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Location:
    In your head, doing stuff...
  14. psCargile

    psCargile Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    GA
    In the presentation, are the red and blue sine waves supposed to represent the microwaves? If so, it seems like he is suggesting an increase in amplitude at the large end simply because there is more room for the waves to move into, which doesn't sound right.
     
  15. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    I wouldn't over-analyse a simple diagram. Couldn't it be said that more energy is contained within more space?
     
  16. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
  17. psCargile

    psCargile Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    GA
    Then that would be free energy.
     
  18. psCargile

    psCargile Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    GA
    You can use the nuclear light bulb to heat remass as thrust. Got to love Atomic Rockets Engine List. (And there are better options.)
     
  19. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    The NSWR 90% solution looks the best--if we could find a way to deal with all the heat. Only the top end fusion and antimatter photon drives have better specific impulse--and only NSWRs give you both high thrust and high specific impulse.
     
  20. Dryson

    Dryson Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Maybe not.

    If Quantum energy can be packed into a smaller space than would be present in normal space time then the smaller space would contain more energy compared to the same energy in normal space time.