Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by AntonyF, May 12, 2013.

  1. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Earth will fall


    But it would have been inevitable, really. Augments, by definition, have superior ambition. They can't NOT conquer. They have to do it. It's in their genetic engineering. If Khan was allowed to roam free, you can bet that he'd raise an army and try to take over the Earth, if not the entire Federation. It's just what people like him do.
     
  2. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

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    The last post touches on the issue, are our actions determined by our genes or our actions determined by what we taught and believe? A man can be ambitious without killing and conquering anyone.
     
  3. Marten

    Marten Captain Captain

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    Re: Earth will fall

    Ignoring countless deaths is of course a proud TOS-tradition. At least McCoy didn't crack a joke about it.

    I still think Khan can be dangerous, 200 years after he was frozen. He is genitically engineered to be better than us, both physically and mentally. He should have no problem with catching up on how wars are fought.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  4. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Not sure if the makers are familiar with Kirk's speech in "TASTE ... ARMAGEDDON" ... y'know, all that 'we're killers but we're not going to kill... today.' Maybe they have superior ambition AND superior willpower, which would offset the ambition or at least keep them from superior bad habits like cracksmoking.
     
  5. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    US military aircraft broadcast a signal that basically says 'don't shoot it is me' to keep anti-missiles from launching on them when they fly near the nation's capital

    (in fact, that is a prime reason some folks think what hit the pentagon on 9/11/2001 was actually a drone or military aircraft, because anything else -- like a commerical jetliner -- would have been shot down automatically.)
     
  6. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a relief to see that no one can come up with any really significant complaints about the movie itself so far. :cool:
     
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A man, yes. Not an Augment. They are a different breed altogether. The drive to conquer and kill is built into them.

    And let's face it, we've all seen what Khan is like (both versions). Does that sound like somebody who doesn't want to conquer and kill? He can go on and on about all this 'revenge' crap, but in the end, he does it because he likes it.
     
  8. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    Since you mentioned TMP; were was the fleet in that one?
     
  9. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    If you go by what's said in the movie, they are far enough out that nobody can get recalled fast enough to intercept (this is in part because vger is coming at a sustained speed - 7.6? -probably higher than that of starships, which had a top cruising speed of warp 6 and were supposed to start shaking apart if you ran them too long at warp 7 or 8.)

    If you figure there are still only a dozen or so starship-class available (which is debatable), there's a lot of space to be covered, so it is at least somewhat plausible that this is the only starship in interception range.

    An earlier draft had vger intercepted by a light cruiser that managed to get in its way, and it basically was replaced by that gorgeous Epsilon 9 station in the movie.
     
  10. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, I'm sure Admiral Marcus and S31 can't disable the defenses or have the Vengeance recognised as such.....
     
  11. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah - there are ships and there are starships. It is a bit silly that there were no ships at all between Klingon space and Earth but I have to respect TMP for treating space as the truly vast and terrible beast it really is.

    I can imagine a starship crew out on the rim, exploring all alone, with no help - like in Alien (I even did an Alien/TMP crossover - lol). I can't imagine that in NuTrek.
     
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It appears to me that the advertising was based on an early draft of the script and not what eventually ended up on film. ;) Which is of course nonsense, but it still looks like it.

    I do think that this John Harrison thing was a last minute addition when they cast Cumberbatch. Orci & Co got to know in the middle of pre-production that everybody else already assumed they were going for Khan. So they tried to keep it a mystery as long as possible. So they cast Cumberbatch instead of Del Toro, and rewrote the script around him. Which eventually resulted in a character reveal that isn't spectacular, or even necessary. Would the film really be different with John Harrison being JUST John Harrison?

    In fact, the character and the plot around him is so ambigous, it seems they couldn't decide between Khan and Gary Mitchell. I think they only made up their mind about that when they cast Cumberbatch. Both reimagined Khan and reimagined Mitchell could have done everything in the film, secretly recruited, super strength, magic healing abilities, and all that.
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I still think it makes sense that Harrison is actually one of the other Augments who just took Khan as a title. Meaning: In this timeline, the real Khan was one of the ones who died before he could be revived, and Harrison took over as leader (thus the title 'Khan').
     
  14. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but he's not.
     
  15. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    You don't have to.
    You can see it in this film.
     
  16. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    I did find it weird they had a secret facility by Jupiter. But we never really saw how populated Earth was and if it had starships whizzing around all the time, I mean by the time of DS9 and TNG they seemingly did, but look how pathetic the defense was against The Borg....
     
  17. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    So is this the six-weeks-from-radio-contact rim or the 5minute warp ride rim?
     
  18. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    To me it appears that the story of this movie was so top secret that JJ & Co. didn't even tell Paramount's marketing department what it was all about, so they had to make something up.
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you WROTE the film.
     
  20. Mutai Sho-Rin

    Mutai Sho-Rin Crusty Old Bastard Moderator

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    Ummm - maybe not necessary.
     

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