Dyson Sphere

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by SimpleLogic, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Artistic license for the sake of the audience's poor wee brains. ;)
     
  2. Ghrakh

    Ghrakh Captain Captain

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    Well, maybe it was on a hill...lol

    The effects were quite good, and the episode really was about Scotty, but my inner nerd can't help but pick it apart...The thinness of the outer shell meant the sphere had a structure more tenuous than a soap bubble, but without the inner air pressure to hold the shape (being mostly vacuum inside). Also, the inside of the entry port looked to be at ground level; I would expect every time it was opened a huge rush of atmosphere would escape. There didn't appear to be a force field. One would expect walls to extend in above the atmosphere.
     
  3. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Corresponding to a water filled lake or small ocean on the inner side. It depends on how thick the shell is, a mountain range on the inner side might look like a deep valley, or a crevasse on the outer side of the shell.


    :devil: :devil: :devil:
     
  4. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not to mention being able to see rivers and lakes at that distance. They'd have to be hundreds of thousands of miles across, at least.

    I can at least visualize a continent or ocean which happens to be a million miles across, but I have a feeling when you get to that scale the rules of geography (not to mention geology) are totally different.
     
  5. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    My only problem with the Dyson Sphere is the door. Apparently, Scotty & Geordi are smart enough to figure out how to trigger it without being dragged in by tractor beam, but aren't smart enough to realize that this is something they could have done more than once, & by doing so, could have salvaged the Jenolan, instead of risking their lives in a hairbrained stunt.

    Scotty survived 3/4 of a century lost in deep space, cycling in a transporter, & Geordi was able to make a neutrino Geiger counter with a tricorder and his visor, while blind.

    Two of Starfleet's greatest engineering minds reduced to using a starship as a doorstop. Now that's effing irony
     
  6. Possibly the Douwd or Q vanished them away...
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...It would have been nice to show them attempting it a second time - and finding out that the door had grown wiser and now ignored such childish pranks. Or even shooed the pranksters away with an educational burst of weapons fire.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Given the brevity of the door remaining open, the Enterprise would have to of been charging at the door prior to Scotty and Geordi opening it. If they had timed it wrong, the Enterprise could conceivably have collided with the closed (or never opened) door.

    Better the way they ended up doing things.

    Besides would the Jenolan have been worth the time and energy of being towed to where ever for repairs? It was a century old and badly damaged.

    .
     
  9. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I find it hard to believe that the Jenolan, only maybe a few decks thick so about 30-40 feet tall, was big enough to block the 1500-foot wide Ent-D saucer from passing through a massive door that had to be as wide as a planet.
     
  10. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was the Jenolan's shields doing the actual blocking open wasn't it?
     
  11. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Regardless, the door was big enough to accommodate both the Jenolan holding the door open and the Enterprise flying through.

    Look at it this way, the Enterprise is 1500 feet wide at the saucer and around 450 feet thick. The Jenolan is only a few decks thick but even with shields on couldn't be more than twice that, so we'll be very generous and say that with shields on the Jenolan is 100-feet thick. We'll say it was dead center in the door.

    So we have a massive door with a 100-foot tall ship in the middle of it.

    Since the CONN officer had to roll the Enterprise 90-degrees to get out the door as it closed, the Jenolan's length with shields on must be wide enough to accommodate the Enterprise 's width. (1500 feet.)

    Does it seem likely there's less than 450 feet of space between the top and bottom of the Jenolan's shield bubble as it holds the foor open? Does it even seem likely it's less than the 1500 feet of the ship's width if it had rolled on it's side to escape above or below the Jenolan. Given the absolute size of the Dyson sphere does it make sense it'd have a door that's less than 450 feet wide?

    Even when we see the Enterprise pulled into the sphere it seems like there's more than an enough room to accommodate both the Jenolan (and it's shield bubble) and the Enterprise.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    That door is MASSIVE. I think the Enterprise could have gotten out without needing to destroy the Jenolan.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  12. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Look at the Jenolan model, particularly the windows. It's way more than a few decks thick. If those are Constitution class nacelles (and they are) and a Constitution-class bridge (and it is), the Jenolan is a pretty darn big ship. I don't know why everyone thinks it's so small.

    Here's a 1/1000 scale Jenolan model next to a 1/1000 scale Conny model:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Everyone thinks it's small because it's the near enough the same model of the executive shuttle with a pair of warp nacelles glued on.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    When they opened the door, it actually spent time with the door open, while the tractor beam scanned the area for a ship, long enough that Geordi actually said "C'mon there's nobody out here" or the like

    My point being. You open the door, making it possible to hail the Ent-D, & tell them you can open the door for them. Give them a few minutes to rendezvous at the door. Open the door again, wait for the tractor beam to cut off, & leave while the door is closing, from its fully opened state, which is pretty much what they did anyway, except that they had to destroy the Jenolan to do it & escape through the narrower passage

    Ent-D rescued, Jenolan salvaged, & no one recklessly put in harm's way. It would have at least been nice for them to do what Timo said & throw us a bone about why a plan like that wouldn't work. Even Timo's idea is a bit thin. How would they know the door would have some kind of AI that prevented them from a second attempt, until they'd tried it? in which case it would be too late, or they'd have to wait until they could get through again

    Two different unknown vessels triggered that door easily. You'd have to assume security measures are not a big issue for these people, & that opening the door is no difficult accomplishment

    Great episode... silly ending. Wrote themselves into a corner, & wanted an exciting ending, & had to flub it. Maybe the Ent-D doesn't tow it away, but Jenolan is still worth salvaging for material, the final arrangements of the dead or even the possibility of saving the starship
     
  15. Captain Fine

    Captain Fine Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I didn't realize the Jenolan was so big. I thought it was basically like a runabout.
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Enterprise would have run into the Jenolan's shield bubble if they did what you're suggesting.

    The Jenolan's shield bubble was in contact with the doors themselves, there was no opening for the Enterprise to fly through.

    You're missing something.

    The Enterprise would not have been able to exit through the doorway while the tractor beams were active, the beams simply would have grabbed the ship again and pulled the ship back inside. The Enterprise's window of opportunity to escape was between the tractor beams cutting off, and the doors closing to the point the ship would no longer fit through.

    A dozen or so seconds.

    :devil:
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Why should we think that the door would be some sort of an evil starship-trap? The tractor beams are there supposedly in order to help starships get in; it would only stand to reason that there would be similar beams on the inside, bending over backward for a chance to help any approaching ship get out.

    Neither set of heroes ever voices out a rationale for why the door would not simply acknowledge the approach of the E-D and help her out, with a polite bow and all. There's no mention of trying to open a door from the inside, let alone of trying and failing. Scotty and LaForge just jump to conclusions and quite possibly needlessly expend a starship and two photon torpedoes.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Acknowledged, then. The Jenolan struck me as having been "smaller" given that it was a transport ship rather than a starship. I wouldn't have figured it to be much bigger than a Defiant class.

    Still, the door is damn huge a certainly could have accommodated bith the Jenolan jamming the door and the Enterprise flying through. And, yeah, I don't recall there being any discussion of trying to open the door from the inside, certainly that'd be possible as well.
     
  19. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No. 47 sign you are taking it too seriously: you actually take the time to create a diagram with measurements from a screenshot to prove a plot detail irrelevant to the whole idea of the given episode.
     
  20. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think you answered your own question - "Why take the chance?"