Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Aldo, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I liked the David Lynch film very much. I have never seen any of the miniserieses but I think Lynch did quite a good job filming it.

    I was rather disgusted at his depiction of the Harkonnens (particularly the Baron) but, like pretty much everything else Lynch does except for The Straight Story, I'm sure that the high disgust-ometer was intentional. :lol:
     
  2. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you liked the books, you should at least check out the Children of Dune mini. It's actually really good.
    I don't think so. As I recall they were scrambling to try and salvage the situation as best they could. Remember Jessica had already partly derailed their plans by having a son instead of a daughter as she was ordered. The intent being that she would have been wed to Feud and ended the old rivalry.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The only Dune novel I ever read was the first one. I thought it was kind of impenetrable at times. I preferred the film.

    Although when I did read the book, it was in 10th grade, and my study group acted out the scene with the "box of pain". I remember recording the sound of butter frying and using it in class. I think it was the source of much :guffaw: . :alienblush:
     
  4. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    The Baron was actually one of my favorite parts of the movie. Yes he was different from the Baron of the books, but he was one of the few changes that worked for me. Plus the actor went really over the top with the role, he was a joy to watch.

    Not sure why Lynch felt the need to give him all those boils though.
     
  5. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Probably just to give the Baron's Doctor that creepy dialogue he has. :lol:
     
  6. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think they gave a damn about the feud - it was the bloodlines they cared about and then as part of their breeding program for the Kwisatz Haderach.

    I can't remember the scene in the book but in the film there's the line about an Attriedes being married to a Harkonnen and sealing a breach in the blood lines that sums it up well.

    Well it gave rise to a retconn in one of the House books where the Baron starts off all strong and handsome till inflicted with something nasty as payback.
     
  7. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In that case you should definitely watch the CoD mini! ;)

    I know what you mean though. Dune took me a few tries to get into and I only kept at it because I liked the film so much...and even that took a few tries to sit though the whole thing.

    I'd say he was perfect for the role in the film, but it just wouldn't have worked if he had been like that in the book. They're both very different animals, but if I'm honest, while the movie version is more entertaining and the actor (to his credit) totally owned the role, I have to say I prefer the original book version.

    To my mind he was a much more effective and formidable villain. The movie Baron seemed to lack the lasbeam intellect and felt more like a pantomime baddie. He was a little too disgusting and despicable and not nearly as insidious.

    One of my favorite scenes in the first book is that exchange between the Baron & Fenring where just for a minute, Fenring drops the simpering courtier act and the Baron suddenly realizes
    what he's really up against.

    Yeah, that's what I meant by salvaging the situation. As in preserving the bloodlines they'd worked millennia to develop and not let the feud destroy all their hard work.

    Mind you, it's been a while so I may have forgotten, but I'm not clear on how they planned of saving the Atredies line. I get that they had Fenring's wife "acquire" Feyd's offspring, but not how the then un-concieved Alia was supposed to be saved. Did they have a plan on getting Jessica & Paul off of Arrakis but the attack happened sooner than they were prepared or what?
     
  8. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They tried to warn the Atreides about the Harkonnen plot when they first came to Arrakis.
     
  9. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I figure that the BG were interested in ending the feud as long as it did not conflict with their breeding program. Having two powerful families that both had some of their special genes fighting an endless war of kanly would put those genes in danger, after all. Jessica had to go and screw it all up though...
     
  10. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The whole thing about making the Atreides and Harkonnens wed their offspring never made much sense to me. What would compel either family to do so? They didn't WANT peace between their Houses and would've been fine doing anything they could to kill one another if the Laws didn't forbid them from doing so. No amount of "Voice" would've been enough to get Leto to give his daughter (assuming Jessica made Paul a girl instead) to Feyd-Rautha.
     
  11. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A House "wants" whatever the head of house says it wants. So if they could do away with the Baron, they would have Feyd in as head of House in one hand and a Bene Gesserit trained Atredies daughter in the other...do I really need to draw a diagram? It's well established where Feyd's interests lie and what a fully trained Bene Gesserit is capable of between the sheets. Either way, the end result would be an heir to both houses who would only be a heartbeat or two away from his inheritance and a Reverend Mother holding his leash.

    The trick would just be getting Feyd in the same room with her and letting his guard down.
     
  12. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Shaddam IV was the real mastermind behind the plot against the Atreides. The Baron was just a smoke-screen for him.

    Plans within plans...
     
  13. Tom Hendricks

    Tom Hendricks I like the Beats and the Shouting Premium Member

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    Thought this would be of some interest to those here. This is from the Omni reboot website.

    FRANK HERBERT CALLED HIM THE ONLY ARTIST TO HAVE VISITED DUNE. DECADES AFTER THEIR PUBLICATION IN OMNI, JOHN SCHOENHERR’S ILLUSTRATIONS ARE AS MELANCHOLY AND POWERFUL AS EVER.


    If there’s anywhere the old axiom about judging a book by its cover holds true, it’s science fiction. Few authors and the artists employed to visualize their stories achieve a real dialogue; more often than not, throughout the history of science fiction, literature of real depth is sold with flashy aliens and cosmic exaggerations. An extraordinary illustrator, however, is capable of contributing to a piece of literature just as meaningfully as its author. In the case of an artist like John Schoenherr, he becomes the work’s joint architect–and leaves a mark no less indelible.

    http://omnireboot.com/archives/dune/
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It wasn't the houses that wanted a wedding or off spring. It was the bene Gesserit for their breeding program.

    And it could have been done if certain origins where hidden and that had been shown.
     
  15. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can see them knocking off the Baron and Leto to put their children in charge, but are women allowed to take over Rulership of their Houses?
     
  16. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing says they can't.

    Plus Shaddam had to put a Bene Gessirit trained daughter on the throne after he died so if she could rule the known universe she could also rule House Corrino.
     
  17. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    I started reading 'Dune Messiah' yesterday, and boy is it a quick read, I'm nearly halfway through it.

    I'm enjoying the conspiracy storyline and am really interested in where it is heading (no spoilers please). But what I love the most about this story, is that just like in the original novel, someone is setting a trap and yet it's sussed out pretty quickly. I really enjoy that because the suspense comes, not from watching the hero helplessly flail about as someone plots against him, but to see if he can overcome the conspirators himself.

    At the rate I'm going, I imagine I'll be wrapping this one up by Monday or Tuesday.
     
  18. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "The first step in avoiding a trap is knowing it is there"
    - Thufir Hawat - Mentat & Master of Assasains
     
  19. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Duncan stuff is the best part of the book.
     
  20. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Seeing the way that Paul can see the trap but absolutely cannot avoid it is fascinating. All his prescience and he still cannot help being manipulated. Seeing the future is a curse, not the blessing he thought it was.