Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Aldo, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's very good, but simple and largely unmemorable compared to the two books it is sandwiched in-between. You'll whizz through it, enjoy it, but not recall most of it a few weeks later.
     
  2. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No. They gave up Caladan to take up residence on Arrakis. The Fenrings were given Caladan by the Emperor. This was mentioned in the appendix section.
     
  3. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, because every novel thats not written like the author just wanted to write the most pretentious thing ever is a dumbed down action novel :rolleyes: I've read very few dumbed down action novels. Regardless of the cracks people make, 90% of star wars books (and about 80% of Star Trek novels) aren't dumbed down action books. A book is written for people to read. Making a book that cares more about style then telling a coherent story is ok, there is obviously an audience for it. But when it comes to memorable, complex characters, they don't just exist in classics like LOTR and Dune, and good books aren't defined by how much the author cared about style over actually telling a story.

    That said, people who look down their noses at anything written to tell a story over sounding/looking pretty annoy me. I can admit that The Silmarillion probably has some good story ideas, if it could only tell them in readable book form. Everyone likes what they like, I don't think its stupid to like the Silmarillion, I just think it transends complex into downright unreadable, atleast to me. I'll admit that while The Silmarillion is unreadable to me other people can understand it easily. I don't think its the complexity but the way it was done. I just don't enjoy the way the book was written, so I can't get through it. Its not that I literally can't read it. If I really had to, I could finish and understand the book. I'm just so turned off by the style that its practically unreadable.
     
  4. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just looked it up and you're half right. It says he was named "Siridar-Absentia" of Caladan. I'm not familiar with the term, indeed I'm pretty sure it's made-up, but I think "Siridar" was used as a prefix to the Baron's title, so it's probably an indication of planetary leadership. So "Siridar-Absentia" probably means "in the absence of the ruler", which is probably why I thought remembered mention of some sort of stewardship.

    I'm sure the intent would have been to give it to Fenring permanently, or since he had no house and was himself sterile, leave the planet in limbo until after he died, then assign it to some noble house or other. Not that it mattered of course, since Jessica & Gurney got the title back and Fenring ended up sharing Shaddam's exile on Salusa Secundus.

    I always wondered what happened to him. One assumes he died (or more likely assassinated) before Shaddam as I can't see him taking a back seat to Wessica's plotting.

    He was only a minor character, but he was easily one of the more interesting. I was always disappointed that he wasn't used in the Lynch film and the way he was depicted in the mini-series bore very little resemblance IMO.
     
  5. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^So he doesn't appear again in the novels? It seemed like they were setting him up for something and than nothing. From what I saw of him in Dune he seemed like an interesting character.
     
  6. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You never see the Fenrings again in the main Dune canon. A shame really, as they were characters that really fascinated me.
     
  7. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I always wondered whatever happened to the daughter his wife had with Feyd Rautha. Given how it was mentioned, I thought it might have been a future plot.
     
  8. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Didn't Fennring go into exile with Shaddam on Salusa Secondus?
     
  9. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I grew up reading the King James Bible so perhaps I had a head start when it came to reading The Silmarillion. Epic history is not everyone's cup of tea, for sure. I recommend you go to the library and find The Children of Hurin. Christopher Tolkien took one of his father's most complete stories from the Sil and, using his father's extra writings (he is no Brian Herbert), he turned it into an actual novel.

    Be warned that it is not a happy novel, by any means. But it is good.
     
  10. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The thing about Caladan and the Atreides having to give it up is how their control of Dune was different from the Harkonnens.

    The Emperor gave the Harkonnens a "Quasi-Fief" contract over Dune, wherein the Harkonnens wouldn't rule Dune or anything like that. They'd just be there to administer the Spice Mining operations and all the profits that gave them. So the Baron would still have Giedi Prime and he'd send a subordinate (Rabban in this case) to oversee things and have some Harkonnen troops out there too.

    The Emperor gave the Atreides a "Fief-Complete" which meant they actually would rule the planet itself instead of just being hired help. This is way better than "Quasi-Fief" since it means they'd rule the planet.

    Of course, this was all part of the trap to get them away from their secure power base on Caladan.
     
  11. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    I need a little clarification on that actually. Why did the Emperor want Duke Leto killed? Was it just because he felt he was becoming too powerful of a leader?
     
  12. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm sure I have a memory of the Fenrings in one of the BH/KJA books? Only because, as others have said, the Count seemed a fascinating character and it was interesting to see him again. Think it might have been Paul Of or Winds Of Dune?
     
  13. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One assumes she fell under Leto II's control once he took over the Bene Gesserit breeding program. He could hardly afford to have someone capable of producing another quisatz haderach running around the place. Personally though, I'm betting he bred her with an Idaho ghola.

    But yeah, you'd think she'd have had a role to play in CoD. Most likely as a potential bride for Leto.

    I think it was a combination of that and his popularity with the Landsraad. IIRC Shaddam feared that he could rally the houses against him and take the throne. I think it's said that the only reason the Imperial throne was never successfully threatened in the past is because the Noble Houses were always too busy with their own rivalries and alliances--a situation any sane Emperor does his best to perpetuate. While the Sardaukar can easily handle one or two houses making a direct attack, most of them at once would just be overwhelming.

    This also ties into why he engineers a trap with the Baron willing taking the blame/credit. If the other houses caught wind of his part in the affair, it'd cause the very uprising he was trying to avoid. He must have been pretty sure of the Duke's intentions to take that kind of risk.
     
  14. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I haven't bothered to check it out yet. The way I look at it, I read one version of this story in The Silmarillion. Then I read another version of part of it in Unfinished Tales. Then I read another version in The Book of Lost Tales. I'm sure the novel version is more fleshed out but it feels like ground that's already been covered.
     
  15. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Both, I believe.
     
  16. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    My memory is a bit hazy, but I'm not sure the Emperor really cared very much either way. It was the Baron who wanted Duke Leto out of the way, due to the rivalry between their two Houses. Since the Emperor was on the Baron's side he helped out with taking care of Duke Leto.
     
  17. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Two reasons: the Atreides was popular amongst the great houses and more importantly his troops were slowly becoming en par with the sardaukar, which would have undermined the military dominance of the Corrinos. There is also the fact that the Emperor had no heir because of his BG wife which would have lead to an eventual crisis in the Empire and the Atreides of course were related to the Corrinos.
     
  18. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thought he had an a heir but the deal was it would she had to be BG trained (so might have even been Irulan). If memory serves it's now the "narrations" at the start of a chapter.
     
  19. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was the Bene Gesserit. They wanted the Atreides wiped out by the Harkonnens so that they'd be in a better position to control the Kwisatz Haderach that would be eventually produced. The figured that if Jessica had a girl she'd be captured and raised as a slave to Feyd-Rautha.

    This was probably because they realized that nothing would ever get the Harkonnens and Atreides to wed their offspring. I doubt any amount of "The Voice" would be able to compel Leto to give his daughter to a Harkonnen.
     
  20. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :rommie: I have Children of Hurin, its about as readable as The Silmarillion to me. Maybe slightly less unreadable, but I don't think I got past page 10.