Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Aldo, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    The actor from the first mini at least kind of looks like Stilgar as he's described in the books. Steven Berkoff, as great an actor as he is, doesn't. Still, Berkoff has a really cool scene in Children of Dune, even if it is really out of character for Stilgar when he goes all over the top and says "have the men summon WORMS!"
     
  2. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I saw the Children of Dune mini before reading the books. Then I read the books and watched the first mini. I still have not seen the Lynch film - it just sounds too strange. Weirding modules...

    The books are great. I am not sure how anyone could film God Emperor, since two thirds of it is simply dialogue, but I would watch it.
     
  3. Daddy Todd

    Daddy Todd Captain Premium Member

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    Herbert wrote 6 Dune novels before his death:
    Dune
    Dune Messiah
    Children of Dune
    God Emperor of Dune
    Heretics of Dune
    Chapterhouse: Dune
     
  4. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought the guy playing Gurney in the miniseries was a pretty bad actor. I also disliked that they completely changed Paul's character. He's a total whining bratt for most of the movie.
     
  5. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Admiral

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    God i hated that part.

    The book easily explained the power of the Fremen in a simple scene when Thufir Hawat talks with Baron Harkonnen about them.
    Fremen grow up in one of the harshest environment known to mankind where they have to fight for their life each day and they manage to thrive in that environment. That's it.. simple but a really powerful explanation.

    That sonic gun, as cool as it may have been, doesn't compare to the book at all and with a little imagination and some good writing you could show that. Of course that may not be as flashy as the sonic gun which is the most likely reason it was included in the movie to explain why Fremen are so strong.
     
  6. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    After you read them you should also read God Emperor, Heretics and Chapterhouse too. God Emperor was weird when I read it for the first time, I almost gave up, don't make that mistake, it's incredible. Heretics and Chapterhouse are great too and unlike many others I don't mind the ending.

    Don't bother with the prequels, sequels and interquels written by Brian Herbert and kevin J. Anderson, they're so inferior it's not even funny. The Prelude to Dune trilogy has some nice moments but it feels like an alternate universe and the story could have been told in one novel, it didn't have to be a trilogy.
    The Legnds of Dune trilogy takes the legend of the Buthlerian Jihad and turns it into nothing but a set-up for Brian Herbert's sequel to Chapterhouse, a shitty ending that really doesn't feel like it's ending the story Frank Herbert started.

    I didn't even touch the books taking place between Dune and Dune Messiah, I've had enough of Brian Herbert's and Anderson's horrible prose, lack of imagination and disrespect for Frank Herbert's work.:barf:
     
  7. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I had enough of Kevin J Anderson after his second Star Wars novel that I never picked up any of his other books again. He's one of the reasons I stopped reading Star Wars and Star Trek novels altogether - the bad authors seemed to get contracts over and over again.
     
  8. Anachronus

    Anachronus Commodore Commodore

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    And for me Lynch's Bene Gesserit were much better. No one can top Sian Phillips.
     
  9. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    I do intend to read all of Herbert's Dune books eventually, I was merely pointing out that I have the second and third ones on hand :) Incidentally I also have Chapterhouse: Dune. Picked those three up at a thrift shop actually.

    Not surprising. I had a similar experience when attempting to read Eoin Colfer's '...And Another Thing.' The supposed sixth entry in the "Hitchhiker's Trilogy." I got about halfway in before I couldn't make it any farther and put the book down.
     
  10. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can't remember the name of one I read it had endless battles in space and read like a bad Star Wars novel it most certainly wasn't any Dune I understood, never touched another.
     
  11. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I never understood why Lynch never used this explanation.

    They had pretty much admitted they had no idea what Herbert had planned. The two thinking machines as the final villains was the best those hacks could do. Whatever ideas Herbert really had, he took to the grave sadly.
     
  12. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think it's clear Lynch didn't really understand the novel, as the film misses the point of all the major themes. The Fremen win because... they have the best guns? Paul... actually is a supernatural messiah that can make it rain?

    Wait, wouldn't rain kill the sandworms and stop the spice flow, ruining the galaxy?

    Love the movie but it's a bad adaptation.
     
  13. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am convinced Frank Herbert intended the thinking machines to be the final villains. The finale Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson gave to the series was sloppy, mediocre, and largely forgettable, but it's nowhere near as bad as a lot of the stuff they've done since.

    The series is being milked to death. Though to be fair, it was like that when Frank was doing the books. The first, second, and third books all have endings intended to never be continued. He kept returning to his best money maker.
     
  14. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    When I first laid eyes on him, I was like, where did they find this guy? I thought he looked like he had just been rousted out of a bar after drinking all night and hustled to the set. Years later I realized it was Hatchet Harry!

    IIRC Herbert claimed that part of the third book was written before the first was completed, for whatever that's worth.
     
  15. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    While they weren't as good as the first 3 books, I like all of the main Dune series, including the books by his son. Also, the House atreides/Harkonnen/Corino books were great, and Paul of Dune/Winds of Dune were decent (although for some reason I don't remember Winds of Dune very well). That said, I couldn't get through even 100 pages of The Butlerian Jihad books and I won't read Sisterhood of Dune. I've been thinking of rereading the Dune series (in chronological order of the stories, not counting short stories, The Butlerian Jihad or sisterhood of Dune books). When I first read them, I read the first 4 books then eventually the others (although I accidentally skipped Chapterhouse Dune, which made it weird reading the latter books :rommie: ). The series is really good, its one of my favorites.
     
  16. arch101

    arch101 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I know, I've read them all. I just feel that the first 4 books are more closely linked than the last 2, regardless of Idaho clones.
     
  17. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Am I the only one that thinks Dune Messiah is by far the weakest of Frank Herbert's Dune books? The second book is incredibly stripped down and simplistic in comparison to the first. It's still a good book, but it felt really cookie-cutter compared to the original. Nothing is examined in-depth and the main story is incredibly stream-lined and short. Got some terrific quotes though, and is better than the majority of sci-fi literature out there.

    Here I agree. The first book changed my life in quite a profound manner. It opened my mind considerably to the the complex relationships between nature, history, politics, religion, philosophy and technology. I remember the good old days of munching on drugs, going for walks through the English countryside and listening to the first book on audio. A profoundly spiritual experience.

    The second best book of the series is God Emperor of Dune, which is also an off-beat masterpiece. The rest of the series is great but not quite as impressive. On the strength of books 1 and 4 alone though, Frank Herbert is second only to Robert Heinlein as the king of my sci-fi bookshelf.
     
  18. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like the first 3 books about equally. God emperor is probably my least favorite of the main series. I still think its a good book, but it was a bit of an awkward transition in timeframe to me. The first 3 books took place in a few decades, then suddenly its 1000 years later and Leto has become a giant worm dictator. It just felt weird to me. Of course, it got weirder after that, but for some reason God Emperor is just the book I like a little less than the others. still, I've only read it once (unlike the first three books, which I've read a lot) so with my rereading the series I might feel differently about it.
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know, I think Lynch took the "witch" nickname for the Bene Gesserit a bit too literally when developing their look.
     
  20. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    I enjoy talking about everyones thoughts on Dune, it's making me really want to jump right into Dune Messiah, and I will shortly, almost done with World War Z.

    I'd like to make a request though: While I in no way would attempt to stifle any conversation, if you're going to discuss plot points from the other books besides Dune, could you at least spoiler code it please? I'd like to find certain things out on my own :)