Dune - The Book and the 1984 film *spoilers for both*

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Aldo, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Those memories were from his human ancestry. And were the worms really even alien? I always thought they were organisms from Earth who had diverged evolutionary after being introduced into the novel conditions on a new planet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  2. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I read the Legends of Dune trilogy (The Butlerian jihad, The Machine Crusade and The Battle of Corrin, the first is called "the Butlerian Jihad" but the entire trilogy covers it) years ago. The Butlerian Jihad (the event not the novel) was much better when I didn't know the details, it was this conflict that changed the Dune universe and most of it was a mystery. When I read the novels this great mystery turned into just another war and not even an interesting one, I knew how it would end from the start, which is a problem of many prequels.

    It had a few good characters, Xavier Harkonnen was awesome, I remember really liking him and Abulurd, one of his grandsons. Their fates, especially Abulurd's actually made me dislike a certain other house.:klingon:
     
  3. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just remember those novels are just pricey fanfiction.
     
  4. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Would that be an event referenced in Dune it's self in the wake of the Battle Of Corrino?
     
  5. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Uhh, it's been a long time, so I'm not sure the event I'm talking aboout is referenced in Dune proper,

    I was talking about
    when he disabled the weapons to save millions of innocent humans and Vorian Atreides branded him a coward and ruined the Harkonnen name once and for all. Abulurd did not deserve this, he was a hero!
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    IMO, the Legends of Dune trilogy (The Butlerian Jihad, The Machine Crusade, and The Battle of Corrin) are probably the low points of the series, and I say that as someone who actually enjoys most of the novels by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson.

    Although The Butlerian Jihad itself is actually a pretty decent novel, and very enjoyable. The other two are so meh they bring the entire trilogy down.

    If you find yourself interested in reading the entire Dune series, than the trilogy is kind of required since it sets up really important backstory for the Hunters of Dune/Sandworms of Dune conclusion novels.
     
  7. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    yep that's the incident. It's mentioned in the original novel as one of the reasons for the way things are.
     
  8. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's reinterpreted as the final battle of the Butlerian Jihad there instead of what people previously assume as the Battle that cements the Corrino Empire.
     
  9. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell so far this is a dumb future Premium Member

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    I love a good Dune thread.

    God Emperor remains my favorite book in the series.

    I'll always appreciate that the series tackled big questions and topics not often explored in science fiction (and rarely to such depth.) It wasn't enough to simply have prescience as en element--it had to be deconstructed and its implications fully explored. Invisibility to prescience being the key to humanity's long-term survival is definitely one of the most unusual themes I've ever encountered in fiction.
     
  10. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    I just finished 'Dune Messiah.'

    I really enjoyed the book, and at the same time the ending fills me with a sense of sadness, not just for Paul, but for the fact that he put himself on his path that would eventually be his undoing.

    I can't wait to get started on 'Children of Dune.' Initially I had planned to take a break from the Dune saga and read 'Catching Fire,' but 'Dune Messiah' was such a great experience I'm jumping right into 'Children of Dune.'
     
  11. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You're in for a treat. Children of Dune is a powerful, moving book and a worthy sequel to the first novel. It's the finale of the original trilogy, and most people will tell you that the ones after aren't worth it.

    They're wrong though, and God Emperor is the best sequel.
     
  12. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My favorite character from the trilogy was Norma. I started glossing over stuff near the end just to get to her parts.
     
  13. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    I have a ton of stuff I want to say, but will start after I finish rewatching the Children of Dune miniseries (it's on YouTube).

    Apologies if this has already been mentioned (haven't read the entire thread), but KJA/BH didn't have the first clue what the Butlerian Jihad was about. A bunch of us "Orthodox Herbertarians" (readers who consider the Frank Herbert novels and the Dune Encyclopedia as authentic Dune - the Encyclopedia because it was sanctioned by Frank Herbert - and the nuDune books as bad fanfic that somehow got professionally published) used to argue this a lot on the old Dunenovels forum.

    The Butlerian Jihad was never a war involving Man against Machine (in the form of robots, androids, meks, etc.). The Butlerian Jihad was Some Men Who Consider Thinking Machines Good vs Other Men Who Consider Thinking Machines Evil.

    It was a war of opposing ideologies, and we all know from real-world history that those kinds of wars can last millennia longer than wars for other, more tangible reasons. Any careful reading of Dune will make this clear.
     
  14. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    I hate to slip into spoilery territory here because I may still read the trilogy...but really!? A war against machines?

    You're right, nowhere in the references to the Butlerian Jihad in Frank's books does it ever sound like it could be a war against machines. Hmm, that is weird.
     
  15. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell so far this is a dumb future Premium Member

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    I thought it was pretty evident that the Butlerian Jihad was man against man, and a matter of conflicting philosophies. A consequence of it was the destruction of thinking machines, but that's no more a war against machines than World War II was a war against buildings.

    You'd think Herbert's own son would have understood what his father meant!
     
  16. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Brian Herbert has shown zero respect for the integrity of his father's body of work. He has published stories that not only contradict the original series, but will have diluted the franchise by outnumbering the original novels. He has pissed on his father's legacy, and is worthy of artistic contempt.

    My two pence ;).
     
  17. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As a former reader of Star Wars novels, I knew to stay away as soon as I heard Kevin Anderson was involved. Once bitten and all that...
     
  18. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    i know the 'story' is that some notes were discovered and a floppy disk in a safe deposit box was found to contain Frank Herbert's outlines...but i've always wondered if any of these notes were about retconning existing books or going crazy with thinking machines.
     
  19. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell so far this is a dumb future Premium Member

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    All I ever heard about was that Herbert had notes for a follow-up to Chapterhouse, which he intended to conclude the series. In essence, he viewed the story as two trilogies with a "bridge" book (God Emperor) in between. That makes sense enough to me.

    I'm content to pretend the other books don't exist or amount to fan fiction. Herbert's unique approach to the material is an essential part of what makes it Dune, for me. Lacking that, it's just not the same.
     
  20. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Au contraire: Chapterhouse is the last in the series. It ends seemingly in media res, with the last survivors heading off into the unknown, the universe full of possibilities. A perfect ending, really.