Dukat attracted to Nerys?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Noddy, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I would blow Dukat for an hour every night if it protected my kids. Meru may not be a hero by Riker's standards or a terrorist by her daughter's but she's a hero to me. Ultimately she kept her children safe, passivity and charming Hitler being the tools she had in her toolbox. If it wasn't all hell for her so be it.. as I pointed out in my previous posts part of what allowed it not to be hell for her was having a peace that her children were protected.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And yet somehow despite being relatively privileged... Kira still chooses to become a resistance fighter, winding up huddling for warmth in caves hunted by drones.

    I think the communication break down here is with Taban.

    By claiming that Meru died a hero at a refugee camp, it unfairly vilified their families benefactors, who she should have praised for the roof above their heads, and also gone into dutiful service for.

    Although if Kira was told the truth, and someone, anyone, found out, then the entire family would have been burnt at the stake for colloborating by the resistance.

    She didn't appreciate the love her alien overlords had for her, becuase it was shielded from her by her father's shame.
     
  3. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

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    Now I remember, wasn't there talk at some point in the show's production about making Nerys and Dukat a couple? I recall hearing something about Nana Visitor finding out about this and going berserk at the idea.
     
  4. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Mr. Gardner,

    Just because there were slaves in the house and slaves in the field does not mean that either one was more free than the other. One may have enjoyed a modicum of comfort over the other. Nonetheless, they were trapped by a system in which they were at their masters' mercy. They did not need to be reminded that their lives were in jeopardy: the system did that for the masters. The fact that the masters were technocrats did not make them merciful. The fact that some proclaimed to be more benevolent did not make them so, and the slaves could not take that claim at face value.
     
  5. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, her dad lied about what happened to mom. I might too in that situation. "Oh no honey, your mom's alive and has been the mistress of our planet's evil overlord... oh it's evening at Terok Nor standard time now, she he's probably banging her right now."

    Not only is a noble death a bit more... merciful... on children's ears, but what was Kira's reaction when he learned of it? Oh yeah, she was a collaborator and deserved to die. Maybe he didn't want their kids to hate their mother.
     
  6. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One of the novels, and I know they're not canon, had Dukat behind the disappearance of Illiana Ghemor, (the Obsidian Order operative altered to look like Kira and given her memories). He deposited her in a secret hideaway and would drop in, schedule permitting, for Dukat-style fun and games.

    This is certainly consistent with his telling Papa Ghemor that he knew where she was and with his comment to Kira that they already had an "intimate" relationship.
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah that novel took Dukat to an even more sick level. Yet was perfectly believable.
     
  8. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    27th October is when the UK revers back to GMT. The only good thing is, it means an extra hour in bed on that day.
     
  9. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Location? What is this?
    man, I need to get my hands on these novels.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Do you know what sarcasm is?

    I was calling Meru a fucking moron.

    You didn't get that?

    She sold out to save her kids who did not give a shit.

    They still thought they were being hard done by even though their lives must have been amazing compared to everyone else who's mother was not frakking the Prefect.

    But then Meru had to be careful and only make their lives back on Bajor a little better and not a lot better so that the resistance doesn't figure out that Kira family are collaborators and cut their feet off.

    Besides.

    Kira aware of her mother paying for a happy childhood on her back is obviously the Mirror Universe's Attendant. Possibly in the Mirror Universe Meru actually sent for her children to come live with her.
     
  11. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    ^I know you have a shtick. No one needs to accept it.
     
  12. Merlanthe

    Merlanthe Commander Red Shirt

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    According to the season 3 episode Destiny Cardassians view irritation and snark, when directed at a certain individual, as a sign of sexual attraction/interest towards that individual

    I have always believed that Dukat, with his twisted mind, interpreted Kira's continuous obvious irritation and snark toward him as her flirting with him even though she wasnt Cardassian and didnt intend it that way. In the episode Civil Defense we have Garak, rather wonderfully, revealing that Dukats posturing and arrogant assertians that he will get them out of the hopeless sistuation are actually his attempt to flirt with and impress Major Kira.

    So he did attempt to flirt with her the Cardassian way so its not too impossible to think that he was repsonding to what his twisted mind percieved as her flirting with him in the Cardassian way.

    Of course in later seasons he just blatantly makes passes at her and his twisted need to be loved by Bajorans becomes obvious. I get the feeling this post didnt make much sense its mostly ramblings oh well...
     
  13. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ It makes a lot more sense than some of what's been posted here. ;)
     
  14. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    All totally understandable. Why burden them with what would be hard to deal with in any situation but in these political times might result in the exact opposite of what Meru wanted for her children.

    And as I said, Kira's character arc is often about being less black and white. I guess you tell yourself that everything you do is for the good of the cause when it involves killing, terrorism, civilian causalities and you keep telling yourself that because you can't be sitting around in the grey zone of morality and get your job done. But now in her position on DS9 (out of the trenches) she has to confront that what other people did to get by in the occupation wasn't always something you could label right or wrong so easily.
     
  15. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Re-evaluating the memory of the occupation is definitely a central issue in Kira's development. However, I found WDTEAN was among the weaker episodes. On the one hand, it was also one of the Dukat-screws-with-Kira episodes, and I found it rather contrived that Dukat would have crossed paths with Kira's family (not without mentioning it before). On the other, the writers didn't have a firm grasp of the Vichy metaphors they were dealing with. Kira came close to recognize the victimization of her mother, but ended up being resentful, in spite of sparing her life. At the end of the Vichy regime, there were reprisals against the worst collaborators, but moreso against those like Basso than Meru. The episode should have resolved with Kira attempting to deal with the shame of her mother's actions than judging her.
     
  16. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was pretty irritated with Kira during this episode. But it's easier to be objective when it's not your own mother.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Like in season 2's Necessary Evil when Kira slinked into the Station, murdered a collaborator, lied her ass off and then slinked out?

    Mommy met the the requirements for her hitlist.

    Daddy too.

    Taking the extra food and medicine is just as bad and collaborative as giving it.
     
  18. Kathy Kringle

    Kathy Kringle Commodore Commodore

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    A more sick level?

    I should read that...
     
  19. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I recommend the first book in the Terok Nor trilogy, a young Dukat at the beginning of the Occupation. Author is James Swallow. Brilliant expose of how his mind works, you can see the developing psychopathy. Very interesting portrayal of Bajor's political failures that allowed the Occupation to insidiously take over.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Fearful Symmetry by Olivia Woods. A real tragic story, and Dukat's only a minor part in it, but the scenes with him are more than a little sick. It's the story of what happened to Illiana Ghemor.

    It's not real good as a stand alone novel though given Illiana's sudden position showing up as an antagonist.