Dukat attracted to Nerys?

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Noddy, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Personally, I thought the point of the story was that Nerys believed as you do, but discovered that Meru did what she did to save her family. Nerys may not have condoned Meru's choices, but it was definitely more "grey area" than she first thought.

    EDIT: And what Teacake said. :)
     
  2. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What's the name of the episode we're talking about? I might re-watch it.
     
  3. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    And that Meru did what was necessary kind of makes Dukat her stepfather which makes his interest in her all the more creepy... "I bedded her... and her mother." :wtf: :barf:
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Her stepfather? I don't think there is any kind of way this is so.

    But yes, he's interested in Kira just to extend the conquest.
     
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night"
     
  6. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Thank you.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nonsense. The occupation had been going for twenty years before Dukat took over. Meru never had a good life to expect any better, which is why privilege was so seductive. The Cardassians kept meticulous records, which means that they kept meticulous justifications. Kira transitioned back to ore processing from Comfortgirl just fine. Sure they'd work some one to death, but they'd never execute a worker in public with out notarizing the correct forms, and that pimp so did not have the authority to have his stable thinned.

    The well being of her family was not threatened. The opposite happened. It was made better, and if she went back to them it just would have gone back to the regular degree of horrible and not a new depth of horrible, if she managed her withdrawl with some grace.

    You really don't understand words do you?

    If she was constantly telling her self that? Like Walt on Breaking Bad... "I'm doing this for my Family" Fine.

    But Meru drank the cool aide.

    There was no moral scales, no constant assessment of if she had gone one hummer too far. She sold out her planet for fresh fruit.

    Meru never once considered saying no, or sticking a knife in Dukat's throat.

    From the first moment she was yes, yes yes.

    Dukat seduced her, and then made her life wonderful.

    She thought that she was special.

    An 8 year relationship that only concluded becuase she died?

    (Unless he killed her) She was special.

    Did he lie?

    No more than I would have had to bed any of the boys here.

    Which is why Kira changed her mind about the Bomb she set that was going to kill her mommy, but really forgiving and forgetting are two entirely different things.

    Darker_Than_Death_or_Night


     
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He definitely was, though I suspect it was more to see how she compared to her mother.

    I do think that it would've been so much better if Dukat (after his breakdown) had revealed that "Tora Naprem" was actual an alias for Kira Meru and that Ziyal was her half sister. It would've been a nice bit to add to her already tragic family history.
     
  9. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Guy, your offbeat rambling is often entertaining, or at least harmless. This time, not so much.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You think I'm happy about this?
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Guy..

    1. We don't know if Meru would have been allowed to "go back". Correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall she was taken against her will from the caves or whatever along with a bunch of other women and at no point during the taking was anyone allowed to say, "no thank you" and left alone. If she could have after a month of Dukat's bed said she wanted to go home do you really think she would be allowed to? Sure he may have cast her out of his bed, sure he may well have not killed her, but that's no guarantee she would go home. More likely shipped off to some Cardassian workhouse, maybe even on trumped up charges that kept her in a penal system. There's your paperwork taken care of. Nothing about Dukat indicates that he would let her go home just like that.

    2. I agree she drank the Kool Aid. However:

    She could put aside all her fears and concerns for her children getting food (and that's what Nerys says, that she remembers eating better).

    Both of these things can exist simultaneously, that she was seduced by luxury and Dukat's charisma and that she had peace that her children were being cared for and spared being rounded up and sent somewhere more heinous than their current life (like a laboratory or a particularly awful camp). However much she was personally seduced, that her children's wellbeing was no longer something she feared for cannot be left out of the equation.
    Would she have stabbed Dukat or tried to leave if she didn't have the assurance and the peace of mind that her children were fine? We do not know. Not everyone can be a hero, but that doesn't make everyone who isn't is a coward. We do know though that for Meru the stakes were considerably less high once her children were safe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  12. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Guy, I think you'll say anything that crosses your mind. Some times it's fun, sometimes it's not.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Teacake, I didn't say that they would send Meru home, but I did suggest that they could demote her into a parallel field like ore processing, like how what happened with Kira after she decked a guard, if she was mildly resistant to the program.

    Kira beat up a guard and nothing too horrible happened. She was just moved to the Stations general labour pool. Obviously Basso was exaggerating about how much power he had, and the women who didn't make it as whores would also be moved to other fields if they didn't cut the mustard in their monthly evaluations.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I just deleted half the post above where I thunderdomed rape vs. slavery.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You said:

    Which is talking about "if" she went back to them and what the conditions would be like. So this seems to be about an option she theoretically had that she failed to take?

    uhh.. but he said their families would be sent to labor camps.

    She is told right here that if she fails it will suck big time for her family. It doesn't matter if Basso is a blowhard who can't do that, evaluating how much power people have over her isn't possible in her position.

    So this is actually even worse than I remembered it. Dukat didn't just provide food and protection, had she failed things would have potentially not gone back to the "regular old horrible" but gotten much worse. So I don't see how you can say (above) that "the well being of her family was not threatened".
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I need an intern.

    It's 1942 and Hitler is sleep naked, snoring beside you.

    Do you snuggle or stab?
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But she doesn't know he's Hitler. He's just some hot SS guy, seemingly hotter and nicer and more generous than all the other buffoons she's been dealing with for years.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Prefect

    Dude was in charge of the planet.
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If she killed him they would have just promoted someone else to Prefect. But first a whole lot of Bajorans, including her family, would have died in retribution. Nothing would have changed though any need to be seen as reasonable would give way to an even more visibly hardline approach towards the Bajoran people.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But that's how terrorism works.

    (George Washington was a terrorist against the legal rule of British Colonialism.)

    Leia didn't do shit, and Tarkin still blew up Aalderan.

    It doesn't matter the consequences, you keep hitting until they just give up and piss off.

    besides they have to be careful about making Martyrs.

    How many prefects have to die until no one wants the job?

    My guess is 7.
     

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