DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Sykonee, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Neither did I. I guess the writers thought having Quark help in the attempt to save Jadzia would be seen as redeeming the character. Personally I'm not convinced that it worked.

    Oh, and for what it's worth, Armin Shimerman seems to agree with us. From the companion ...
     
  2. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 5: (Ending 10.24.93)
    TNG: Gambit, Part II (Airdate 10.18.93)
    DS9: Cardassians (Airdate 10.24.93)

    This is unfair. Really, it is. TNG came swinging out on all fronts, giving it as good as its gotten this season. The pirate-ship intrigue, more Data in command (I really wish we could have seen more of this...), more rogue-Picard mixed in with archeology-fanboy Picard, more fun scene-chewing antagonism between Stewart and Frakes, seeing Worf as second-in-command for the first time, and a brilliant cameo by NBA Hall-Of-Famer James Worthy!!! This is a fun, fun episode!

    Yet, DS9 was just that little bit better.

    Drama. That's the clincher. I'm all for political intrigue and social commentary and Garak-Dukat conflict (the two are in the same room in only one scene, yet the animosity between the two can be felt throughout the episode), but it's the tragedy of Rugal that raises this episode much higher. Especially so when he slaps O'Brien's own inherent dislike of Cardassians right in the chief's face; brilliant scene.

    As much fun as Gambit is, it doesn't carry the same emotional gravitas as Cardassians. The young show manages to take another squeaker of a round, but both combatants are showing signs of fatigue after duking it out so hard lately -or in other words, get ready for a series of 'meh' episodes in the coming weeks.:borg:

    Weekly Winner:
    DS9

    Next:
    TNG: Phantasms
    DS9: Melora
     
  3. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Now, I'd forgotten about that. It's very true and a very good point - this was a mistake.

    And how can anything beat "Cardassians"? :D

    I see next week is a real slugging-match. :shifty:
     
  4. Vicki

    Vicki Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This is a facinating project. I have TNG and DS9 and haven't watched any of them for awhile. I'm looking forward to following you when I can.
     
  5. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 6: (Ending 10.31.93)
    TNG: Phantasms (Airdate 10.25.93)
    DS9: Melora (Airdate 10.31.93)

    On a Very Special episode of Star Trek this week, the crew learns a valuable lesson about how to treat an individual with a handicap with respect, and this individual also learns that her handicap isn't as bad as it seems if it means sacrificing her heritage. However, when Captain Picard an-

    Huh? What do you mean Melora wasn't the TNG episode? It has all the hallmarks of a TNG Message Show, plus DS9 hasn't done any Romance Shows either, so... Oh, it was the DS9 episode. Huh, go figure eh?

    Alright, as much apathy as most folks have for Melora, the, er, Melora stuff isn't all that bad, and for DS9's first Romance Show, it was agreeable filler; plus, you have to enjoy the little touches they added that makes the Trek Universe seem much more alive and real (Klingon Restaurant! Vulcan Composers! And an honest discussion about 'Sub-Space Relationships'? Heh, no wonder they never work) But, the Quark stuff was incredibly pointless (beyond the odd Odo quip), plus the way they shoe-horn it into the Melora storyline makes the climax, well, unfortunately silly. I can see how Quark would have started to grate on an audience at this point, as he's done nothing but caused headaches for everyone (The Siege, Invasive Procedures, and now with this episode, he's 3-for-6 this season in being an annoyance -and with nary a punishment either!).

    Oh, the TNG episode? Erm, it gets bonus points for surrealness (Counseller Cake, with mint frosting!), and funny little character moments (Worf handling Spot, an agitated Picard hovering about in engineering, etc.). I'm not sure if I buy into the inter-whasit parasites, but it was certainly creepy seeing those things for the first time -perfect for Halloween Week. Ooh! And fresh SFX shots of the Enterprise-D! Love the standard 'zip by screen' shot, only for the warp nacelle flash to just fizzle out. TNG gets the squeaker edge here.

    Weekly Winner:
    TNG

    Next:
    TNG: Dark Page
    DS9: Rules Of Aquisition
     
  6. thedude

    thedude Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree with you here Sykonee.

    Melora is a good episode, with some fantastic Siddig wire-work (I'm sure he loved those scenes) but it doesn't stand up against the sheer creepiness of Phantasms. I understand the DS9'ers were trying to push a message across, about being handi-capable... but Melora wasn't handicapped, she was just from another race that lived in lower gravity... I wouldn't really consider that a handicap, just a difference... it'd be like saying French people are handicapped in America because they don't speak English... doesn't really cut it for me, but what do I know? ;-)
     
  7. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Really? I'd think it would be a handicap to have a body that's conditioned to exist in low gravity and then be asked to work in a higher gravity setting. Sure, maybe it's not the same as having physical handicaps that we're familiar with, but Federation medical science seems capable of fixing most handicaps we'd understand as handicaps as soon as possible (though obviously, blindness is still a problem). Having someone who was born a parapalegic (sp), for example, also wouldn't be in the same position as Melora - to her, it's not only the way things are, it's how her species evolved, so everyone back home is like she is. The parapalegic would be someone who would WANT to be able to get around without the chair or cane, but Melora would desire to go back home at least occasionally.
     
  8. thedude

    thedude Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree with you on the core of the definition of the word, but just because she comes from a race that exists in low gravity doesn't mean she's disabled by the common convention of the term. She's completely "normal" by her races standards, however appears to "function" perfectly, just not so well in what we consider normal gravity. I just don't see that as a disability, or a handicap... just a difference! BTW, the glass is always half full :-)
     
  9. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 7: (Ending 11.07.93)
    TNG: Dark Page (Airdate 11.01.93)
    DS9: Rules Of Acquisition (Airdate 11.07.93)

    It's a Troi story. With her mother. The opening seems to suggest another Diplomatic Episode as well. Huh. Maybe that new SeaQuest show is on right now.

    To be fair, there are a couple good scenes in Dark Page. Troi seeing her father, plus Barrett turns in a strong emotional performance here, proving again the Lwaxana character can be interesting when she's given meaty material and not corny 'comedy' all the time. Unfortunately, unless you're a major Troi fan, this is mostly a dry episode. I can't see many terribly intrigued by a Troi backstory, even one with a tragic twist.

    DS9, on the other hand, makes me laugh. No, really! I think I take Dax's advice to heart for this episode, because I can't help but find Quark's, Zek's, and even Rom's antics highly enjoyable, which is a far cry from the annoying shite we've had to put up with from Quark this season. I'm sure this will be hotly contested, but I feel Rules Of Acquisition did a lot to make the Ferengi likable. Like Dax says, "once you accept [their traits], you'll find they can be a lot of fun."

    DS9 didn't have a great episode this week -heck, it didn't even have a good episode- but it was more entertaining than TNG's. The Ferengi get a surprising win.

    Eh? That 'Dominion' thing? Ah, I'm sure it isn't important. Probably about as inconsequential as that child actress in Dark Page.

    Weekly Winner:
    DS9

    Next:
    TNG - Attached
    DS9 - Necessary Evil
     
  10. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, myself I liked "Dark Page." But "Rules of Acquisition" was interesting for its insights into the Ferengi. Neither are particularly my favorite.
     
  11. thedude

    thedude Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Dark Page should win JUST because it's full of Kirsten Dunst... even pre-pubescent Kirsten Dunst > all things DS9. Just the sheer acting potential she showed in that episode probably made every TNG cast member re-think their careers... ;-)

    Neither episode really that great in my book... I actually usually skip over Dark Page when watching TNG... the whole Troi story-line episode (aside from when she's taking the commander test) just didn't do anything for me.

    Early Prediction- Attached in a LANDSLIDE. Probably a top 5 episode for both Patrick and Gates.
     
  12. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She may not match the dictionary definition of 'handicapped,' but it IS very fair to say that she is at a severe disadvantage in Federation standard gravity. Though she's normal for her race, it sets her very much apart from standard Starfleet officers and Federation citizens. Yeah, it may not be a perfect analogy to the handicapped people in our twenty-first century society, but it had been established that what we consider traditional handicaps have been for the most part fixed by the twenty-fourth century, so no analogy would be perfect.
     
  13. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 8: (Ending 11.14.93)
    TNG: Attached (Airdate 11.06.93)
    DS9: Necessary Evil (Airdate 11.14.93)

    I don't know why, but for some stupid reason, the thing that stands out the most for me in Attached is the African-American Prytt. Jus' sayin'. Um, anyhow...

    Shippers week! Although not exactly expected, was it?

    Oh, sure, there were tons of people looking forward to a Picard/Crusher storyline that got to the crux of their relationship. Unfortunately, despite forcibly getting it out in the open, it's handled in such a wishy-washy manner that it feels like nothing was gained from this storyline, thus nothing changes. Granted, they would explore it again at the end of the season, but we didn't know that at the time; instead, things remain unresolved, with their relationship more-or-less returning to status quo. Par for the course with TNG I guess.

    Meanwhile, on that far-flung space station that people seemed to have forgotten about, an unexpected new wrinkle has developed in the relationship between Kira and Odo. The whole murder investigation is engrossing itself, but the way the final scene plays out is brilliant on far too many levels to briefly detail here. Simply put, it left the nature of their relationship wide open in such a way that it gave the writers plenty of maneuvering room should they be bold enough to explore it (which they did, yay!). Given how unexpected this must have been at the time (I doubt nearly anyone even considered a Kira/Odo 'ship could develop, especially after the events of the Circle Trilogy), Necessary Evil's boldness delivers a knockout blow to Attached's cautiousness.

    Weekly Winner:
    DS9

    Next:
    TNG - Force Of Nature
    DS9 - Second Sight
     
  14. VDCNI

    VDCNI Captain Captain

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    Two weeks where I do like both TNG stories - particulaly Attached but mainly because they give my two favourite characters (Troi & Crusher) something to do. However I'd have to agree that the DS9 episodes in both weeks are stronger.

    I didn't realise that Force Of Nature & Second Sight were on in the same week, I have sympathy for you having to sit through one of them let alone both!
     
  15. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like "Attached" for finally addressing P/C in such a fashion, but "Necessary Evil" wins for me too. It's an all-around more entertaining episode, I think.
     
  16. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was half-tempted to just flip a coin, but then my reputation as a music reviewer might be in jeopardy if word got out that I cheated.:vulcan:

    Week 9: (Ending 11.21.93)
    TNG: Force Of Nature (Airdate 11.15.93)
    DS9: Second Sight (Airdate 11.21.93)

    TNG had a HUGE Event Episode this week. I do believe this is the first time that Spot is referred to as 'she', which means in the time between this and Spot's last episode, the cat had a sex change! This is astounding!! No wonder Data has begun having even more difficulty than ever in training him/her -all those wackily imbalanced hormones and such. Oh, and there was some other stuff involving the engines on the Enterprise-D: they apparently run 0.1% more efficient than the Intrepid's engines, which I'm sure will have important ramifications down the road.

    Huh? Oh, that whole second-half 'technology is environmentally bad' bit? Balderdash! DS9's episode totally debunked that assumtion this week. Seyetik's "crowning achievement" has renewed the enviornment of the Epsilon 119 system; where there was just a cold, dead region of space, now there is a life-giving star! And he did it with freakin' protomatter, which is... um, really hazardous stuff, or something. Still, Second Sight proves technology totally kicks ass, man!

    Huh? Oh, that whole 'Sisko finds love' bit? Um, well, I guess they finally gave him something to do outside of being the station's commander, but falling back on a love story isn't exactly the best way for the audience to warm up to the character; you have to first define who he is as a person before you can care about whether he finds romantic happiness, and he's still quite undefined beyond what we learned about him way back in Emissary. It unfortunately makes for a dry love story.

    So, how do I compare the two? Spot's sex-change vs. Sisko's dream girl? Or 'technology is potentially bad' vs. 'technology is fuckin' wicked awesome'? Yeah, I'll give DS9 the nod here.

    Weekly Winner:
    DS9

    Next:
    TNG - Inheritance
    DS9 - Sanctuary
     
  17. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "Second Sight" was definitely better. A nice if slightly kitschy emotional story for Sisko.
     
  18. VDCNI

    VDCNI Captain Captain

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    They are both very poor episodes but yes I would go for Second Sight if only because it was an attempt to tell a story that didn't quite work while Force Of Nature was an attempt to sell a message without any thought as to whether it made a good episode.
     
  19. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree, VDNCI. :)
     
  20. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 10: (Ending 11.28.93)
    TNG: Inheritance (Airdate 11.22.93)
    DS9: Sanctuary (Airdate 11.28.93)

    Good ol' Echevarria. He always seems to take an incredibly simple premise ("Data meets his mother, who's also an android") and turn it into a compelling character story. Certainly doesn't hurt that Flanagan brings a lovely performance here.

    Inheritance is highly underrated. Perhaps it can't be helped, as it comes after a string of sub-par episodes from TNG, mired at the tail-end an overall lackluster November from the Trek franchise, and the last thing folks want at this point is a character story (especially so if you've never cared for Data). It's quiet, understated, admittedly easily skippable... but still better than DS9's offering this week.

    Sanctuary isn't outright awful, but never seems to gel as an episode. With so many separate plot-points, it feels like this was meant to be a two-parter that was condensed into a single hour. I'm not even sure what the message is supposed to be here, that the Bajoran's are at fault for being somewhat xenophobic after Cardassian occupation? Um, didn't we resolve all this with the Circle Trilogy? Frankly, I'm more annoyed at the Skrreean's arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude at the end of the episode.

    And with that, DS9 heads into winter re-runs, with TNG following very shortly after. However, the competition should definitely pick up when the shows return in January, as B5 finally makes its proper debut. The plot thickens...

    Weekly Winner:
    TNG

    Next:
    TNG - Parallels