DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Sykonee, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ties of Blood and Water - excellent episode. Second Skin was amazing and Ghemor was such a great character that I'm glad we saw him again. It's a really good character episode for Kira and bringing back Weyoun was obviously a smart move as well.
     
  2. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 26: (Ending 04.27.97)
    DS9 - Ferengi Love Songs (Airdate 04.21.97)
    VOY - Real Life (Airdate 04.23.97)
    B5 - Racing Mars (Airdate 04.24.97)

    G'uh. DS9 totally phoned it in this week. Having a Quark centered episode only two weeks after the last one isn't the best of ideas. Hell, has any character on this show been given that opportunity? Hmm... (*Jeopardy theme*) Nope, nadda. Closest would be O'Brien's three consecutive episode run in S2, but he was paired up in two of those, and with someone different in each instance. Yep, DS9 definitely phoned this one in. Maybe they were afraid they'd be up against another Severed Dreams?

    Well, they should have done a better scouting report, because Racing Mars is hardly Severed Dreams. It's an alright episode tho', mostly about moving plot with amiable character bits along the way - Marcus certainly steals a bunch of scenes. And then there's that whole Garibaldi business. Okay, we get it: there's something askew with him, probably because of that whole Psi Corps thing he keeps getting flashbacks over. Yet... the argument that is made to convince him to join forces with those Men In Black is actually quite reasonable. He actually seems to be... concerned about Sheriden, and wants to help him somehow. His logic may be screwy (is Sheriden really all that messianic right now? I sure don't think so), but it does make sense from Garibaldi's point of view.

    Still, this is mostly your standard B5 Arc Plot Episode, which can be taken down by a stellar Character Episode if one of the Treks attempts it. VOY must have gotten a better scouting report than DS9, as Real Life certainly goes for the gusto. At the same time though, I can't help but feel like the Doc (and by extension the viewer) is being cruelly manipulated into the situations he has to deal with. It's like B'Elanna stuck a Worst Case Scenario Easter Egg in her 'randomizing' re-tweaking of Doc's program. Yes, tragic things can happen in real life, but my God the odds of all that happening in such a short time? (there's also a b-plot where Paris gets sucked into a special effect that looks like what depictions of quasars typically do, and into some kind of parallel dimension; he finds his way back easy enough though, and proceeds to have lizard sex with B'Elanna, tying into the flirting plot from earlier remarkably well (unconfirmed))

    VOY's heart was in the right place and was well acted (well, aside from those stupid teenage Klingons), but the cynicism in me ultimately rejects the overly... what's another word for 'manipulative'...? (*Jeopardy music*) - 'contriving' out-of-the-blue plot developments in Doc's program. At least B5's plot, while a bit contrived as well, has a logical undercurrent to it given what we know from previous episodes. But hey, that's the benefit of doing Arc Based shows, ain'it.

    Weekly Winner
    B5

    Next:
    DS9 - Soldiers Of The Empire
    VOY - Distant Origin
    B5 - Lines Of Communication
     
  3. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not seen the Voyager episode.

    Racing Mars isn't a massively important episode, but I must say I really enjoyed it. Pretty much all the scenes are good.

    DS9? Oh, for heaven's sake:lol:! Was anyone desperate for another Ferengi episode so soon after the last one? At least Business as Usual was good, whereas this one is rubbish. If not for Let He Who is Without Sin..., this would be the worst of the season.
     
  4. Eyes

    Eyes Commodore Commodore

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    Ferengi Love Songs, as Pemmer says, pretty poor compared to the rest of Season 5, and it wasn't especially important given all it did was establish the Ishka-Zek relationship, which does nothing to the series aside from conjuring up a rather repulsive mental image.

    As for Real Life, it was a very interesting idea, and I did enjoy it, but it really felt kind of average coming between Before and After and Distant Origin, two of the strongest episodes of Season 3. It certainly managed to generate a surprising amount of emotion for one-episode holodeck characters, I'll give it that. The B-Plot was needlessly technobabbly and really just filler
     
  5. Kai Winn

    Kai Winn Captain Captain

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    may i predict a win for voyager's 'distant origin'? one of it's best conceived and executed episodes, and a shame we'll never see the advanced but dogmatic saurians from earth again. love the dark atmosphere, great dialogues, and fx. who doesn't know distant origin, it's on youtube.
     
  6. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    I agree. But I figured Real Life would win this week, so apparently Sykonee as a different taste then me.
     
  7. Bones2

    Bones2 Commodore Commodore

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    It's a good one, that.

    Is anyone else secretly happy when Voyager wins?
     
  8. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Every time it happens I get so upset I kill a kitten. :(
     
  9. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    VOY's earned itself the 'scrappy underdog' reputation, it seems.
     
  10. Kai Winn

    Kai Winn Captain Captain

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    well, it doesn't celebrate religion, and there are no great wars like in ds9 or b5, which are serious disadvantages. i like it better nonetheless. watched 'way of the warrior' these days again, and couldn't help but giggle when the war council of the federation consisting of a captain sisko, lieutenant dax, young dr bashir, and chief o'brien casually decided the course of the federation.
     
  11. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It was gunning for a win for most of the episode, heck even right up to the end. Once it was over, however, I had a chance to reflect on it and realized, for as emotionally invested Doc was in his 'family', what it ultimately boiled down to was he was just playing an elaborate version of Sim Family. He started on Beginner's Level, then B'Elanna forced him to play Extreme Level, which he 'lost' when his 'daughter' dies. And as a viewer, I feel the resulting drama is therefore a cheat, no matter how heartfelt it is. I mean, what's to stop him from restarting the simulation on Intermediate Level (which would probably have been a more realistic portrayal of family life anyway) and trying again?


    Week 27: (Ending 05.04.97)
    DS9 - Soldiers Of The Empire (04.28.97)
    VOY - Distant Origin (04.30.97)
    B5 - Lines Of Communication (05.01.97)

    Why did they have to go and say the Voth evolved on Earth and then left for space? Why not just say aliens took 'em away when they saw the planet was suffering a catastrophe, and then they evolved elsewhere? Works for me! Ah, I'll just go ahead and believe that, and that their original conclusion was faulty. Besides, it's not really what the episode is about, is it?

    Dinosaur origins aside, darn near everything else in this episode works! Fresh take on episode format (we don't even see the crew until the second act), great guest actors, great alien designs, great continuity, great costumes, great sociological quandary, great direction, great hair, great eyes, great body, great... sorry, I was focusing on Jennifer Lien for a bit there again.

    DS9 and B5 were alright this week too, but aside from some fun Klingon scenes in Soldiers and Delenn kicking serious Drakh ass near the end of Lines, both shows seemed to be going through their paces: DS9 doing a standard "Worf Sacrifices To Do The Right Thing" episode (though he gets a reward for his troubles this time), and B5 moving more Arc Plot along. Hm, might it be neither wanted to send competition against VOY this week? Or maybe they're just saving something bigger for down the road?

    Weekly Winner
    VOY

    Next:
    DS9 - Children Of Time
    VOY - Displaced
    B5 - Conflicts Of Interest
     
  12. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

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    I love Distant Origin! One of the best episodes from season three. It's good that VOY has had this upswing in quality finally as season three has been distinctly average overall.

    I loved Delenn in Lines of Communication - absolutely ready to kick arse. It made me feel nostalgic for Delenn of past seasons.
     
  13. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Gods damn it. :(

    *calls out window* Puss! Here puss! I have some tuna for you!
     
  14. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hmm, tough call actually, since all three episodes are good, but all have their flaws.

    Voyager was imaginative and cool and I loved the Voth and their city ship. Downside: the regulars felt like bit players here.

    B5 has the most memorable scenes for me, especially Delenn going all scary and wrathful and the Sheridan-Ivanova scenes were some of their best. Downside: it felt a bit all over the place.

    DS9 has a nice coherent story (so good they remade it twice!) that sets up how Worf and Martok's relationship will be from now on. Downside: like all these Bird of Prey episodes, it's not quite as exciting as you'd expect.

    Lines of Communication is the one that sticks in my mind the most, but I'm going to give the prize to Distant Origin for being such an imaginative sci-fi story.
     
  15. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 27: (Ending 05.11.97)
    DS9 - Children Of Time (Airdate 05.05.97)
    VOY - Displaced (Airdate 05.07.97)
    B5 - Conflicts Of Interest (Airdate 05.08.97)

    And now it's DS9's turn for a High Concept Sci-Fi Episode! Only, in this case, they remember to also bring in a strong character element.

    Well, I guess this was a bitter-sweet cake for all the Kira-Odo 'shippers out there. Finally - finally - Odo's feelings come out in the open, yet it's from an old-timey Odo who's had 200 years of reflective regret over never letting Kira know how he felt. Oh, and he decides to sacrifice a whole colony of folks, including himself, to save her. Um, thanks? That puts young Odo in quite the awkward position, don't it? And with something like that finally out in the open, where can the two go from here? Oh, and the rest of the episode was pretty good too.

    Over on VOY, another relationship dynamic seems to be brewing, and quite sensibly at that. I suppose it helps when you start pairing off your regulars, you have the freedom to let it grow over the course of a few episodes (er, provided you don't let Braga have it play out over a series of 'dream'/'wack genetics' episodes). The rest of the plot is standard Saturday Morning cartoon fare: evil aliens take over ship, good guys outwit evil aliens because evil aliens are too stupid to improvise when their Master Plan backfires. I'll pass, thanks.

    And Garibaldi gets to carry an episode on his own over on B5, and thankfully getting something good this time! Well, it's a fairly typical 'private detective is hired to protect former flame' plot, but executed quite well by throwing in some B5 traits into it (out foxing telepaths!). In the end, it was a strong outing for Garibaldi, showing that although he may not be on Sheriden's side anymore, he's still working for what he feels is the right thing (even if it is now cloak'n'dagger shenanigans). And Zathras! Or, no wait, that wasn't Zathras. It was Zathras. No, wait, I'm getting Zathras mixed up with Zathras again. (seriously, quite a fun scene, and all in one take! I wonder how much Choate improvised it, if at all)

    Still, DS9 had the strongest outing of them all this week. It delivers yet another gut-punch of character drama, with a clever sci-fi story thrown in for good measure.

    Weekly Winner
    DS9

    Next:
    DS9 - Blaze Of Glory
    VOY - Worst Case Scenario
    B5 - Rumors, Bargains and Lies
     
  16. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Children of Time's a cool episode. Nice to see them throw in something so blatantly Trekky now, since obviously things aren't going to be like that for a while at least. Oh, and savour this one, because it's pretty much our last glimpse of the wonders of the Gamma Quadrant.

    Conflicts of Interest is OK, but it's one of the season's lesser episodes in my opinion. Some nice stuff and the plot thickens for Garibaldi, but DS9's offering is better this time.
     
  17. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always thought that the type of time travel featured in Children of Time didn't many any sense, but this is by far the best use of that type of time travel in anything I've seen.
     
  18. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 28: (Ending 05.18.97)
    DS9 - Blaze Of Glory (Airdate 05.12.97)
    VOY - Worst Case Scenario (Airdate 05.14.97)
    B5 - Rumors, Bargains and Lies (Airdate 05.15.97)

    Maquis Week! Well, close enough anyway.

    So Eddington gets his big send-off, and a good one at that. At the same time though, it's a shame he goes when he does, as he and Sisko were developing quite the intriguing adversarial dynamic between them. It'd be interesting to watch where they could have gone with them had they decided to explore further potential conflicts between the two. Ah well, out in a blaze of glory indeed.

    VOY was pretty fun this week. Yes, even the malfunctioning holodeck jeopardy bit, as out of leftfield as it was. I really enjoyed Tuvok throughout this though, from first it being revealed he was behind the original program (I suspected as much, given the title), to his prideful, protective actions towards the program when Paris takes it upon himself to finish it. Not to mention his improvisation once Seska's Easter Egg is unleashed (and hey, it was nice to see her one last time ...this is the last time, right?).

    And B5? Rather quiet and understated regarding the Delenn plot, and quite amusing regarding the Sheridan plot. In fact, the Sheridan plot kind of recalls back to the silly Drazi Green/Purple story from S2, perhaps because it was directed by Vejar in both instances. Still, this was a good episode, balancing drama and comedy quite well.

    Man, tough call here. I liked all of these, each for their own unique-to-the-show reasons. In the end, I'm going with the character pairing I enjoyed the most: Sisko-Eddington. The Delenn-Neroon stuff was still good though, and Tuvok-Paris was simply a fun diversion. I just liked the closure we got with Eddington here, whereas B5 ends on something of a quiet cliff-hanger.

    Anyhow, VOY has its season finale next week, and hints at being something quite Eventful. Might B5 or DS9 send in something just as competitive? Mmn, with a title like that, I'm not sure if B5 is...

    Weekly Winner
    DS9

    Next:
    DS9 - Empok Nor
    VOY - Scorpion
    B5 - Moments Of Transition
     
  19. Eyes

    Eyes Commodore Commodore

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    Blaze of Glory against Worst Case Scenario, whew. Love both of them, and if I was choosing, could have gone either way. WCS was actually doing a holodeck story right for once for at least the first half of the episode, but I suppose I have to agree with you, Blaze of Glory wins this week, with its fantastic closure on Eddington and the Maquis.
     
  20. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    My memory of Moments of Transition is a bit vague, but Scorpion is a pretty strong season finale. VOY might actually squeak out a win.