Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Sykonee, Apr 9, 2009.
Yeah... it's like "Plan 9 from Outer Space" next to a run-of-the-mill Hollywood romcom.
Yes, but not in a good and/or funny way.
I don't know, I like Crossfire. I'd say that it was because I've gone through a similar experience in the past, but I liked the episode even before that happened. Besides, it has my favourite Quark/Odo scene in the whole show.
Well, it is a very good episode for Odo, and a good episode for Quark. Just not a very good episode for Kira.
I've not seen Crossfire for ages, but I recall really feeling for Odo when he was on the floor of his room with his hair a bit messed and talking to Quark. I'm sure we've all felt like that at times.
On the other hand, Threshold is a classic.
that's a rumour planted by disgruntled niners who had to get up at 03:25 or so to watch their show, while voyager got the prime time.
In my neck of the woods, both shows would actually air one after the other, usually in the prime-time spot. In fact...
Week 18: (Ending 01.29.96)
DS9 - Crossfire (Airdate 01.29.96)
VOY - Threshold (Airdate 01.29.96)
I very distinctly recall watching these two episodes as they aired. My interest in Trek had somewhat waned at this point but, for whatever reason, I ended up catching Crossfire. Being in the middle of typical awkward teenage-hood, I suddenly found myself relating to Odo's predicament. I wouldn't go so far as to say I was in the middle of such a love triangle, but boy did I ever feel that same sense of confusion over a gal. Oh yes, I was one of those 'such a good friend' guys. Fortunately, no bedroom furniture was broken in the ordeal.
So, having quite enjoyed DS9's offering, they aired the preview for VOY's (as they often did between credit rolls of DS9), which was going on about "BREAKING THE WARP 10 BARRIER!!" Say, that sounds interesting. Maybe I should check it out.
Right. The only two S2 VOY episodes I'd caught was Non Sequitur and now Threshold. Back to ignoring with that show. On the other hand, I stuck around with DS9 for the remainder of Feb Sweeps.
I wonder how many folks did the same. And say, B5's coming back next week too.
DS9 - Return To Grace
VOY - Meld
B5 - Voices Of Authority
I'd replace the with a , but the rest of them were in the correct order.
I have no idea how good the B5 episode is since I still haven't started watching the show, which I intend to do one of these days, but if it's nearly as good as the other two, you're in for a really great week.
Threshold vs Crossfire is a tough one, since I think they're both pretty bad. Obviously Threshold is stupid. The bit that annoys me most is how they say that warp 10 is a theoretical impossibility, but then decide they should try and do it anyway - only an idiot would do such a thing, and only in an idiotic episode would it actually work. The evolution stuff is self-evidently ridiculous, but especially galling is how Janeway and Paris are completely back to normal at the end. Kathryn Janeway and Tom Paris became who they are through decades of physical and psychological development, but the writers want us to believe that via some technobabble the Doctor can change a pair of giant salamanders back into those same two people, just as they were before .
Crossfire is a different matter. Kira's romance with Shakaar just does nothing to illuminate or develop her character and Shakaar is really just some guy. With Vedek Bareil I could tell you about the man and who he was, but not Shakaar. It's really all about Odo and yes, he's in unrequited love with her as we've known for some time, but I don't think it made for a very good episode. I've always liked the relationship between Odo and Kira, but I'm not sure whether I actually want them to become a couple or not. Admittedly, I do like Quark's role here and Kira looks gorgeous in her dress uniform, but beyond that, I'm not keen.
I've no idea how good the Voyager episode is, but that does look like a good line-up.
typical. a traumatic childhood experience produces biased judgement. really, while kira as a hominid spends the night in a bed, odo rests in a bucket nearby. while i don't doubt that he can make love being able to shape any body extention, i'm not sure he gets the point of it. just scratching the surface, i hope you understand that any odo love relationship is more absurd than treshold.
Love is not the same thing as sexual drive.
At least I think so, even though us humanoids tend to have a hard time separating the two...
Thankfully, the next episode is much better for her character. Even if, oddly enough, she is again interacting with someone who has a thing for her - but that's a whole different matter...
You'd think that a former terrorist leader turned Prime Minister would be a more interesting character!
Whether you wanted them to or not, Kira finding out was something that really needed to happen in order for her to be released from the role of the passive, oblivious object of Odo's love.
I still can't dislike any episode that centers on Odo and his feelings - I like Heart of Stone for the same reason, another episode that usually gets severely criticized - because Rene Auberjonois always sells it big time and really makes you feel for him.
It makes for a better Odo/Quark episode than it does for an Odo/Kira episode.
And hey, Rene did say it's Odo and Quark who should have hooked up...
edit: Why does this forum keep removing the embedded video?
It might be my favorite VOY episode. Granted, that might not be saying much, since VOY is my least favorite Trek show, but I really liked Meld. Even TheGodBen thinks it's one of Trek classics. And, you know, how can an episode featuring Brad Dourif not be good?
/\ I dislike Heart of Stone, but I agree that his feelings did remain secret for too long. When I watched HoS I thought "OK, this is when she finds out". I thought the same thing when I saw Crossfire. Boy, was I wrong. I know most people hate it, but my favourite "Odo secretly being in love with Kira episode" is Fascination. I always like the Odo/Lwaxana scenes, even in The Muse.
What's worse is than in the future in "All Good Things", they travel Warp 13 even though episodes earlier a ban was placed on travelling at high Warp speeds.
The problem was solved and the warp scale was redrawn.
When? I don't recall an episode stating that and if one doesn't exist you can't really consider it canon.
I still find it incredibly jarring with everything else in other episodes. It's understandable that VOY breaks Warp 5 as they're in extreme circumstances of being so far from home but as far as the rest of the ships they should keep to Warp 5.
We are all the sum of our experiences with a little bit of genetic predisposition added in, and childhood/teenage experiences are the most important in determining who we are. For example, when I was five my parents left me in a car for five minutes, and while they were gone two guys came along and started beating the faecal matter out of each other on the bonnet, spraying blood and pus all over the windscreen while I hid in terror in behind the seats. That experience turned me into a coward, but almost completely desensitised me to violence against humans. It's why I enjoy staying indoors and playing excessively violent video games.
At least that's my excuse.
And 1.78 billion people are alive today because of this mistake.
Sexual drive is only required to create a baby, love is the biological force which keeps the parents together long enough for that baby to reach puberty. At least that's what I keep on telling myself since I don't have either right now, when I actually have those things my opinions on the matter become entirely more stupid.
My opinion of Meld may be greater because I watched it after Threshold, but I think it's great because it had magnificent performances, they actually tried to explore the villain (who wasn't really a villain) and it addressed Voyager's unique situation even if only slightly. I'd put it well ahead of Return to Grace.
don't recall the episode either, but it was solved indeed. on voyager it's the tilting nacelles that keep space in shape. for me it's confusing that in tos, they could cross the whole galaxy in hours, no matter what warp scale. kirk states in the episode 'wink of an eye' that the enterprise is 'from a planet millions of lightyears away'. that would be from another galaxy.
Traumatic? Ah, heh, nothing of the sort. Still, it isn't that far of a stretch for a teenager to relate to Odo's situation.
In fact, Odo could be considered something of a teenager himself regarding such feelings. He's already rather young for a Changeling, and most of the situations he's encountering amongst humanoids are for the first time. He already considered Kira a friend (if just his only one), so when he starts to feel pangs of loneliness after turning his back on the Founders, it isn't that much of a stretch that he would increasingly rely on Kira's companionship to fill that void in his life. Of course, in dealing with such feelings for the first time, it's easy enough to mistake them for typical love-love, as humanoids often do.
Well, one theory anyway.
I'd add that the first signs of Odo wanting to be more than friend to Kira was in "The Collaborator" when he seemed to feel a pang of jealousy when Kira told him she loved Bareil. While Odo does not naturally have sexual feelings in the usual sense of the word, and might really have found that part of humanoid existence puzzling, he secretly longed to be as close to Kira (the only person he'd ever been close to up that point) as possible, and it was painful for him to realize that other people can have the kind of intimacy with her that he didn't think he could, and that she could love them in the way she couldn't love him (or so he thought).
Separate names with a comma.