DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Sykonee, Apr 9, 2009.

  1. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The thing that works in Fascination -at least for those of us who enjoy it- is that it doesn't take itself seriously, so neither do we. It's rather like a comedy fanfiction ...which I s'pose makes the fact it was actually produced for TV somewhat unfortunate, but there it is.
     
  2. TeutonicNights

    TeutonicNights Commander Red Shirt

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    but ... the Keiko bitching!
     
  3. mattyhugh

    mattyhugh Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Is par the course for Keiko and not just contained to the episode in question. So you really can't condemn it solely on that.
     
  4. USS Fardell

    USS Fardell Captain Captain

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    Strange, that I thought that Caretaker would have had aired around the same time as The Search...
     
  5. Eyes

    Eyes Commodore Commodore

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    Nope, it aired around the time Past Tense, Part 2 was being filmed, which is why Voyager Season 1 is a lot shorter than DS9 Season 3.
     
  6. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Voyager's premier was held back until January, possibly because they were waiting for UPN to launch, or maybe because they had to wait for filming on Generations to finish so that they could build the Voyager sets. Either way, Voyager season 1 had 19 episodes (20 if you count Caretaker as 2 episodes) and 4 of them were held back for the beginning of season 2.
     
  7. TeutonicNights

    TeutonicNights Commander Red Shirt

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    Hehe, true. But it was extremely bad in that episode imo.
     
  8. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    And weren't some episodes of season two then held back for season three? I seem to recall that Basics was filmed back to back, rather than holding off the second part until after the hiatus.
     
  9. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, Sacred Ground, False Profits, Flashback and Basics Part 2 were all season 2 episodes which were held back to air in season 3. I heard somewhere that it was an experiment Jeri Taylor wanted to try because she didn't like having an end of season cliff-hanger with no resolution as it hung over the writers' heads all summer as to how they were going to resolve it. Unfortunately it didn't work out because three of those episodes were fairly bad.
     
  10. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it worked out. Basics has a resolution that makes sense, and is able to keep around all the actors from the previous part without any gaps in continuity. From a standpoint of wanting to make strong cliffhangers with logical resolutions, it was a good strategy. Of course, the other three episodes were just standalones that were held over, so they have little do with her thought.
     
  11. Bones2

    Bones2 Commodore Commodore

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    If they were held back, this means they were already completely filmed, right? Did the logs give earlier stardates?
     
  12. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Apparently so. S3, as per Memory Alpha (bold dates note Stardates out of airdate chronological order):
    Basics - 50032.7
    Flashback - 50126.4
    The Chute - 50156.2
    The Swarm - 50252.3
    False Profits - 50074.3
    Remember - 50203.1
    Sacred Ground - 50063.2
    Future's End - 50132.5
    Warlord - 50348.1
    S3 carries on as usual from here.


    Week 11: (Ending 12.03.94)
    B5 - The Long Dark (Airdate 11.30.94)

    Kind of an odd episode this, but does sort of sum up B5 as a series at this point. They're definitely going out of their way to build up the overall story arc (plenty of references to "Ancient Enemy" and "Gathering Darkness"), and managing to tinker with traditional sci-fi tropes in their own way (Surprise! The future isn't gonna be all Trek-like utopia, From-The-Past Woman). And of course, they seem more than willing to give their guest actors opportunities to play a different role from what some may have type-casted them as (Schultz as someone other than Barcley? Who knew!).

    On the other hand, some of the show's pacing remains wonky (the final act jumps all over the place), and it sometimes overemphasizes the drama to near-farce levels. And somewhat annoyingly, it constantly shifts focus from all the subplots, so just as you're getting warmed up to one storyline, it's promptly dropped in favor of another one. C'mon, B5, we know you can weave everything effectively (Chrysalis) -you should be past these quibbles by now.

    Overall, not a bad episode, but perhaps not the best one to be strutting your solo time with.

    Weekly Winner
    B5

    Next:
    B5 - Spider In The Web
     
  13. happydave

    happydave Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Anyone who watched The A-Team?


    Ohh sorry, rhetorical question. I should learn not to answer those.
     
  14. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    All I ever remember from The A-Team is the theme song, trucks flipping, cigars, and Mr. T tossing someone over his head.
     
  15. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Long Dark: this episode's OK, but not one of the season's best instalments. I actually think that B5 was quite good at weaving different plot lines together by this point, although obviously it didn't always come off. Schultz's performance was maybe a bit much here, but I liked the stuff about Mr Garibaldi's war experiences and that "it'll take more than 100 years to breed a better human" line is probably one of my favourites from the show.
     
  16. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As truthful as it is, I always took the line as yet another subtle dig at Trek's utopian outlook. Not that it's a bad thing -even DS9 was known to poke fun at Trek's outlook at this point- just an apparent thing. Funny how Franklin kept getting such lines/episodes...

    Week 12: (Ending 12.10.94)
    B5 - A Spider In The Web (Airdate 12.07.94)

    Government Conspiracy Week!

    Another one of those "This is ok, but..." episodes. B5's S2 sure has had a lot of them so far. Similar problems as the previous episode (the whole early business regarding the T'Kar is the very definition of dropped sub-plots), but at least it moves at a better pace. I s'pose your enjoyment of this episode will mostly boil down to whether you're interested in a Talia Winters-centric show.

    That said, this is probably the best character development for Talia since the Ironheart incident, and really thanks to a single scene, when she decides not to reveal seeing a Psi-Cop in Horn's memory to Sheriden. Everyone may be getting comfortable with her and her with them, but it shows she's still not one to be completely trusted.

    This is a decent enough episode -develops a character further, provides an interesting dilemma, seems to build on the show's overall arcs -and only suffers in hindsight; despite the episode seemingly moving more plot pieces into place for future use, nothing from here will lead to anything of consequence. Of course, how were we to know this in December of 1994?;)

    Weekly Winner
    B5

    Next:
    B5 - Soul Mates
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  17. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Bleh, feelin' the flu, so decided to do a bit of marathon viewing up to VOY's premiere.

    Week 13: (Ending 12.17.94)
    B5 - Soul Mates (Airdate 12.14.94)

    Amusing, light-hearted episode. Kind of reminded me of S1, with Londo more jovial and G'Kar less somber. Szarabajka was wonderful as an utter creep.

    And, um, not much else to say really. A bit of surprise there's little reference to overall story arcs (unless you count Delenn's hair problems as a part of her Transformation Arc), but it's nice to take a step back from all the doom'n'gloom as we head into the holiday season, no?

    That ends B5's solo time, a rather tepid run to be honest. Come January, things start to heat up again as DS9 returns, VOY premiers, and B5 figures to give the Trek franchise a real run for its money during February Sweeps...

    Weekly Winner
    B5

    Next:
    DS9 - Past Tense, Part 1
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2009
  18. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Week 14: (Ending 01.02.95)
    DS9 - Past Tense, Part 1 (Airdate 01.02.95)

    I have to wonder if Behr and Wolfe had any idea just how pertinent the idea of Sanctuary Districts would continue to be. They certainly seemed quite surprised at how much it was even way back when they did this episode, but despite a couple of boom periods since, you still get the impression that we aren't that far removed from this Near-Future Possibility.

    That has to be one of the best things about Past Tense: just how contemporary it is. At times, I forget I'm even watching Trek, but rather some kind of modern-day street drama. The lighting and colors of the past certainly help sell the setting, as everything's such a muted, distilled gray'n'beige, not unlike many a dilapidated urban district.

    Okay, technobabble still sucks -seems we're getting into that Trek period of needlessly excessive 'babble (ooh, and VOY is on the horizon:p). Stick to the past, and this is still a strong episode ...for a set-up anyway.

    Weekly Winner
    DS9

    Next:
    DS9 - Past Tense, Part 2
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  19. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hmm... I'm getting a bunch of conflicting dates for January. Some state Past Tense, Part 2 aired a week before Caretaker, some the day before, and some the same day. For now, I'm going with the week before -makes more sense to let a series premier have the solo spotlight. After all, Emissary got it.

    Week 15: (Ending 01.09.95)
    DS9 - Past Tense, Part 2 (Airdate 01.09.95)

    For the longest time, I was having a hard time with Sisko as a proper lead in Trek. Not that I didn't buy into Brooks as a good leading man, but let's face it: Sisko really wasn't given too many opportunities to be, well, heroic. At least, not in the same sense that we'd seen Kirk or Picard (in their own ways). I wasn't sure if I'd ever be able to see Sisko in the same leagues as prior Trek heroes.

    This was the episode that completely changed my mind.

    Yes, there was the self-sacrificing nobility (and keep in mind Sisko had no idea that the future of the Federation was at stake when he took on the responsibility of Bell), but we'd seen some of that before. And certainly we've seen him able to talk out of a few tense situations. So what's the difference here?

    One scene, where he confronts Vin one-on-one, and basically loses it over the outright apathy Vin displays over those in the District. To me, this was Brooks' best scene up to this point. It's just... raw, believable emotion. Sisko simply can't believe anyone could be as uncaring as Vin -he doesn't know whether to beat some sense into him, or to burst into tears. And it affects Vin in such a way that even Vin never thought possible: it makes him actually start to care.

    It's such a small thing, yet it's a heroic moment right up there as any Kirk derring-do or Picard speechifying. At this point, in my mind, Sisko finally deserved be held in the same breath as the previous two titans of Trek lore (and lo, it was only going to get better from here).

    Hm... just in time for us to have to start getting used to another Trek lead it seems. DS9 now sits back for a little to let VOY show us what she's all about.

    Weekly Winner:
    DS9

    Next:
    VOY - Caretaker
     
  20. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sorry for the slight delay here, as I had to get a crash-course of the show Deepwater Black for a review of a tie-in album; thus, a mini-marathon of the series. You... do remember the show, right? Mission Genesis to the yanks? Geez, c'mon, Niners, you GOTTA know this show! (Here's the review, for anyone curious anyway. ;) )

    Also, in my continuing battle with conflicting dates, it now appears that, from here on, new DS9 episodes will be airing on Mondays rather than Sundays. This isn't a huge difference, but since I set my weeks to end on the Sundays, this does effectively shift DS9 into contention with different episodes than I had originally thought would. I wouldn't worry much over it though -best not to get wrapped up in such trivial details.

    Oh, and here's an interesting factoid: this will mark the first time I've ever done a proper run-through of VOY. While I've caught chunks of episodes through syndication in the past, never have I sat down to actually watch 'em all in a row -there's even a few that I've yet to even see. I s'pose I could now possibly tie this thread into the VOY forum as well ("VOY Versus"?), but I somehow have the feeling it wouldn't bode well...:shifty:

    Week 16: (Ending 01.22.95)
    VOY - Caretaker (Airdate 01.16.95)

    Here's a funny memory. As my father and I were watching the VOY premiere, during the Kazon battle, my old man quipped, "Geez, they go across the galaxy, only to get into yet another space battle?" It did seem quite contrived that, of all the places in space they'd end up, our new crew would end up somewhere with space-faring aliens of comparable fighting technology. The odds, man!

    That nitpick aside, Caretaker was still quite enjoyable, and a strong premiere. The characters are established well, they made the DQ seem quite different from what we were used to (making water a rare resource in the immediate region was rather clever, and something we tend to take for granted), and it hints at all sorts of wonderful possibilities for the series.

    In its first dance in the spotlight, VOY makes a solid first impression. Unfortunately, its competition isn't letting it rest on its laurels, as B5 comes right back next week in an effort to serve up some Humble Pie to the rookie.

    Weekly Winner:
    VOY

    Next:
    B5 - A Race Through Dark Places
    VOY - Parallax