DS9 should get Remastered

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Trekmaster555, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. noknowes

    noknowes Lieutenant Commander

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    I DID SAY THIS:-

    Perhaps CBS/Paramount can be involved in it too.<---

    Both fans and cbs would win.
     
  2. Captain Fine

    Captain Fine Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I really hope the DS9 masters are well-preserved if it's deemed too expensive to remaster at this time. That way, when it is fiscally feasible to do so, they can. It'll have to happen eventually. DVD won't be around forever, and you can't put SD on Blu-Ray.
     
  3. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Anyone who thinks upscaling a SD video is even remotely comprable to remastering the original film in high-definition compare the old SD DVD version of TOS played on a blu-ray player to the remastered version. You can upscale till the cows come home, it's never going to be anything but standard definition.

    It's like copying a cassette recording onto a CD and expecting all the hiss and noise to go away and for it to sound like it was remastered. All the hiss and noise from your cassette is going to be copied onto a CD as well.
     
  4. noknowes

    noknowes Lieutenant Commander

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    But software can remove that.Even the free Audacity can remove noise.

    it can restore to original condition.last year old recording were restored digitally from the 1920 to near dolby status.
     
  5. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Here's a graphic representation as I see it:

    [​IMG]

    The upscaled image is better than the SD image but its attempts to replicate what is "really there" in the HD image are off in a number of areas. You might not realise the errors are there if your eye is untrained, but when you compare the true HD image next to the upscaled image you can see where it is wrong.

    So what, you say? That doesn't mean much in this case because this is just a collection of random pixels I cooked up, but imagine this was an image of 2 million pixels. There would be distortion on the image, some things would look fake and certain parts of the image would look fuzzy when they are supposed to have increased clarity.

    Just because you don't care about HD doesn't mean that others don't and for those people an upscaled image will never be able to cut it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  6. Navaros

    Navaros Commodore Commodore

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    Yes you did say that, but that doesn't mean CBS/Paramount would ever have any reason that makes them want to do so.

    How would CBS win, and why would they want to be involved in this?

    Whose to say they'd even be able to be involved in it without violating legal principles which may cause them to lose ownership of their own IP (those laws can be pretty off-the-wall which is why corporations are often forced to shut-down fan offshoots of anything with an iron fist).
     
  7. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    You can do whatever you want to try to improve the recording, the changes are only going to be cosmetic. You can't add any detail to the recording that isn't already there on the tape. If you want a perfect reproduction of the original recording, you have to go back and transfer the original recording.
     
  8. FalTorPan

    FalTorPan Vice Admiral Admiral

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  9. noknowes

    noknowes Lieutenant Commander

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    If the originals were destroyed nobody would have anything to compare the restored versions with and hence they would become the defacto masters.
     
  10. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In this case the film footage from DS9 purportedly still exists and can provide much better quality than upscaling the video image, so why not use that? Just because you don't want it doesn't mean that other don't, many in this thread have said that they do, and if all that you want is an upscaled SD image then you can just watch your regular DVDs on a good DVD or blu-ray player. That's what I do.
     
  11. Destructor

    Destructor Commodore Commodore

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    Also, if every copy of DS9 on DVD was destroyed and all we had were the shitty VHS copies people taped from TV, they would become the de facto masters and anyone who complained about their awful quality wouldn't be able to prove it!
     
  12. noknowes

    noknowes Lieutenant Commander

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    It is unlikely that dvd copies would get destroyed due to proliferation.

    But you get the essence of the idea that too much detail is bad and would not contribute to any further enjoyment.You don't really want see skin blemished and nose hairs.

    PEOPLE GO TO SEE A STORY.

    Enjoyment as you may not realize has a plateau level above which it cannot increase.

    for example suppose we increased detail by using magic to 3d level.would that makes nemesis any better?
     
  13. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    enjoyment vs. more resolution

    Ha Ha. well said.
     
  14. happydave

    happydave Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Only if I can waltz into Nemesis and fire some trilithium, tekasite and protomatter into the Romulan Sun thus ending the movie and destroying Romulus... it's not like it wasn't going to be destroyed anyway.
     
  15. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree, but if that's how you feel why were you so insistent earlier that software should be used to upscale the image?
     
  16. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    No. It would make it worse.

    But really, you're clearly missing the point, as the above quote proves. No one is talking about adding extra detail, through magic or any other means. We're talking about preserving the detail that's already there but you can't see because the transfer isn't good enough. We're talking about getting a transfer as close to the original film quality as possible.

    Adding 3D details would be altering the film; we're talking about preserving the film.
     
  17. Destructor

    Destructor Commodore Commodore

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    No, I don't get that idea at all. My post was a parody of your absolutely ridiculous premise that as long as people aren't aware of a better quality version, they will never be able to complain about the quality of what they have. It's like saying that a B+W photocopy of a painting is as good as the original painting. It's madness. If you care one jot about DS9, you should be interested in preserving it for the next generation. But you don't, so I kind of don't understand why you keep coming into this thread to lecture about something that completely goes over your head.
     
  18. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I don't, in fact, get this idea even a little. So because we don't want to see the detail of cracked paint on canvas we should throw away the original Mona Lisa and be happier with prints? Your argument makes no sense.
     
  19. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Seconded.
    That is what was accomplished with the TOS-R Blu-ray [the shots without ANY visual effects].
     
  20. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Let me just say that I understand the argument that TNG, DS9, and VOY were edited into complete form on videotape, ergo those are the original versions. I understand that argument. With TOS, of course, the original completed, edited episodes existed in film form, so they could do HD transfers of the original versions. To preserve the original TNG and DS9 film, they'll have to essentially make new versions of the episodes. I get that that makes some people uncomfortable. My view is that we should preserve the film regardless, make those new edits, and as long as both original SD version and remastered HD version are available, everyone will be happy. But again, I understand the other side's argument that the SD edits on video are the original versions.

    But the argument that too much detail is bad? W... T... F?