ds9 blu ray

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by marcus.t, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. marcus.t

    marcus.t Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Any one know when it's out?
     
  2. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    Probably never.

    DS9 (along with TNG and Voyager) would be impossible to release on Blu-Ray without massive alterations. The effects and editing were all done on videotape, whose maximum resolution is so low that it would make a BR release impossible.

    To release those three shows on BR, all of the effects would have to be done over again, from scratch. Just like they did with TOS. And since there are seven seasons, of three shows each, that they would have to do, I don't ever imagine this would happen, since it would take too long and be way too expensive.

    As far as I know, Enterprise is the only Trek show that is airable in HD from the get-go. They could release ENT in Blu-Ray right now.
     
  3. marcus.t

    marcus.t Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    I see ur point,not really into the idea of buying all those dvds!,maybe they could redo the pilot as a way of luring people in!:p
     
  4. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    They may do a Fan Collective in blu-ray, but that will probably be it.

    From what I hear, even though "Trials and Tribble-ations" will appear on the TOS Season 2 Blu-Ray set (paired with The Trouble With Tribbles), the DS9 episode itself will not be in HD, unlike the TOS episodes in that set.
     
  5. Broccoli

    Broccoli Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Location:
    Broccoli
    Which makes me wonder how they were able to put non-remastered TOS on Blu-Ray. Unless that was shot/edited differently.
     
  6. Ziz

    Ziz Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Location:
    NY
    As has been said in other threads (check the TOS forum), TOS was shot AND EDITED on actual film, so you could theoretically watch them on an actual film projector in a movie theater and they would still look good.

    Non-remastered TOS on Blu was more due to fan demand than ultimate image quality - that's why they did TOS:R in the first place, because they originally decided that the old FX wouldn't look that good at such high res.

    The key here is "and edited". The modern series were shot on film but only exist in their final forms on video, and even at that, non-HD video, as 400-odd line LaserDisc/SVHS was about as good as it got 10 to 15 years ago. For them to look acceptable on BluRay, each series - TNG, DS9 and VOY would essentially have to be put back into post production, every episode's edits duplicated from the ground up, and all the FX, if not at least re-composited with current equipment, then re-created digitally a la TOS:R. TOS:R was 3 seasons, T/D/V total 21 seasons - that's seven times the amount of FX work, plus all the editing.

    If it happens at all, it won't be any time soon.
     
  7. msbae

    msbae Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    TNG, DS9 and VOY will be released on Blu-Ray sooner or later. There will be plenty of demand for those shows (well, maybe not VOY) from fans. If it doesn't appear on Blu-Ray, it might appear on Blu-Ray's successor technology. It will take some time to recomposite all the FX.
     
  8. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    The Essex wastes...

    It would cost millions to redo all the effects in High definition. Millions. I highly doubt they'll make back an investment of that much, unless they sell it to syndication much like TOS-R prior to a Blu ray release.
     
  9. WHF

    WHF Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Location:
    the Eye of a Shitticane
    I thinks this question stems from the incorrect use of remastered. Every episode on the TOS blu-ray disks are remastered whether they have new special effects or not.

    The other point you may be trying to make is correct. There is no problem putting standard def material on a blu-ray, in fact a lot of special features are in 480 resolution on many blu-rays.

    DS9 can be put on blu-ray right now. It might benefit from less compression but it will probably only be a marginal improvement.
     
  10. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2001
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    Expense, as said before, is the key factor here. If it can be brought down, then TNG, DS9 & VOY could all be rereleased in blue ray. But by then Super Hi-Vision could be out, and the problem of money and weather or not it could even be redone in Super Hi-Vision would be problems.
     
  11. clint g

    clint g Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Location:
    No where
    TNG i can see coming out on Blu-Ray at some point. Ds9 and voyager will probably take a while longer. Something else to consider is that as HD becomes more of a standard, people will begin to expect that quality. If DS9 and Voy are to survive in syndication in an HD world, they may just require an HD remake
     
  12. Kurros

    Kurros Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    Adelaide
    I don't think it will ever happen or that it needs to.
     
  13. PhasersOnStun

    PhasersOnStun Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    This is a misunderstanding of the requirements of blu-ray playback. Here is my understanding:

    In order for content to be properly decoded by the blu-ray specification, it needs to be encoded in high definition. However, it doesn't need to be remastered and redone. It can simply be "upscaled" which basically is like blowing up the print of a photograph. It might look good, it might not, but it can be done.

    What they did with TOS is they did a complete remastering of the original film. This means that they didn't simply run the film and then digitize it at 1080p resolution. It meant that they also cleaned up the film to remove the effects of film aging, redid warbled audio tracks, etc. That is the definition of "remastering."

    The enhanced effects is actually another issue. They chose to do that to update the look of the shows for new viewers because the '60s TV effects are really showing their age. But the remastering process itself does not require "re-CGI-ing" the original film.

    Now, that is the highest quality and most expensive way to deliver material on blu-ray. The other way is to simply take the material as it is (at normal television resolution of 480p) and "upscale" the material. Upscaling is not an artistic process like remastering, it is a mathmatical process by which 480p resolution images are interpolated into 1080p resolution images.

    Here's an extreme example: if you wanted to, you could make a screen capture video on your PC of something playing on YouTube, and with the right software and hardware encode it to play in a blu-ray player. The original resolution would be terrible, the upscaled version would be just as bad if not worse, but it would play from your blu-ray player as "high def" even though it really is just a blown up (upscaled) low-res screen capture video.

    My understanding is that for the DS9 episode on the season 2 TOS blu-ray, it is being "upscaled." Meaning the 480p resolution original will be interpolated to play from a blu-ray player at 1080p. But it will not be remastered, it hasn't been improved in any way.

    The point of all this explanation is that if CBS/Paramount wanted to, they could release TNG, DS9, and VOY on blu-ray without too much work, just upscaling, which is not a terribly expensive process—nor is it a particularly good looking process. But it is achievable.

    Remastering would run into all the hurdles that Mr. Beam and others have pointed out, and would likely not happen.

    I do expect that at some point, an upscaled version will come out on blu-ray. It's quality may be marginally better than the DVD, but I'm guessing the main benefit (if any) will not be quality, but that blu-rays have more storage capacity, which means the discs could take up less room and/or include more extra features.
     
  14. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    There wouldn't be any point to upscaling TNG, DS9 or VOY and releasing them on Blu-Ray now. You will get the same result by simply playing your standard definition DVDs on a HDTV. (If the DVD player doesn't upscale, the HDTV will. Because if it didn't, you would only get a tiny postage stamp sized picture in the middle of the screen, surrounded by a huge black bar on all four sides.)

    The whole point of a Blu-Ray release is to have it really be in HD.
     
  15. PhasersOnStun

    PhasersOnStun Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Agreed. But—

    Depends on perspective. To you and me and perhaps most fans, you're absolutely right. But from the perspective of a studio, the "whole point" might be to sell more units, either to new buyers who don't own a particularly series on DVD yet and were waiting for the blu-ray, or for current owners who will re-purchase even with no advantage, just to have the "latest and greatest" (even if we're not them, we know they're out there...)
     
  16. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    Consumers would complain if they bought a Blu-Ray and there wasn't any actual HD content on it. They expect there to be some HD on it, and rightly so.

    And as I said, since releasing the shows on BR would have exactly the same results as playing the standard def DVDs on an HDTV, then what would be the point? Just to save a couple of discs? That would not justify the expense. Having TNG, DS9 and Voyager (as they are now) on BR would not be the latest OR greatest; it would be *exactly the same*.
     
  17. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Location:
    The Essex wastes...

    I wouldn't complain if they released an entire Season in SD on 1 blu ray, or a single 7 disc boxset for £70 which has EVERY episode of DS9/TNG/VOY on it, thus saving space and cutting costs for the consumer.

    Hell, im sure a high end BD-Rom could fit the entire series on 1 disc.
     
  18. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    But it wouldn't cut costs for the studio. So they have no incentive to do this.

    And besides, customers can save space all by themselves. Do what I did; throw away the existing packaging, and buy those Case Logic sleeves. Doesn't cost that much.
     
  19. PhasersOnStun

    PhasersOnStun Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Some do, some don't. For a movie/series that you may not own, the choice sometimes comes down to this:

    For the same money as the DVD you can buy a blu-ray with upscaled content but more special features. Such packages do exist and they do sell so obviously someone is buying them.
     
  20. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    ^ There are Blu-Ray sets that have no actual HD content at all? Somehow I'm having a hard time believing that.

    In any case, what possible special features could there still be that haven't yet been released? And even if they did exist, would there be room for them, after cramming all of those episodes onto one or two discs?