DOMINION DECLARATION

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by T'Girl, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. Nick086

    Nick086 Captain Captain

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    Didn't Sisko say something to one of the Founders or Vorta about the Federation had every right to explore inside the Gamma Quadrant? The Dominion didn't want the Federation in the Gamma Quadrant at all. Which led to the destruction of every Federation ship entering the wormhole through the Gamma Quadrant.
     
  2. The Cutest of Borg

    The Cutest of Borg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not saying the attacks on the Odyssey, New Bajor, and other Federation ships in the Gamma Quadrant were justified. But you could argue that the Dominion felt the Federation was encroaching on their territory and wanted to send a message to stay the hell away. That didn't stop Alpha Quadrant powers from continuing to explore the Gamma Quadrant, and in some cases, interfering with Dominion planets (i.e trade with the Karrama, Bashir curing the Blight, etc.) War could have been averted if the Feds had stayed on their side of the wormhole.
     
  3. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think the Dominion controlled the space immediately surrounding the Gamma Quadrant entrance to the Wormhole. Several maps and data displays seen throughout the series show the Dominion border some distance from the Wormhole.

    The Dominion's decision to destroy any Alpha Quadrant excursion into the Gamma Quadrant would be similiar to the European Union deciding to destroy any United States excursion into the Mediterranean Sea. The EU doesn't control the entire Sea, there are other powers in the area, but they're definitely the big dog on the block.

    As for what actually started the war, I believe it was the Dominion's attack on Deep Space Nine.
     
  4. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Given that it took a year and a half for the Dominion's name to start vaguely appearing it suggests they weren't terribly close to the wormhole at all. If they did control the space around the wormhole their presence should have been pretty much immediately noticed.

    I think it was Dax who said something along those lines when the Jem'Hadar arrived with the Dominion's unreasonable ultimatum.

    Actually it didn't lead to the destruction of every ship entering the GQ. The Dominion sent an ultimatum and didn't enforce it, traffic was going both ways for years to come.

    That I don't agree with. The only way war would have been averted is if the Federation closed the wormhole as soon as the Dominion revealed itself. The Dominion's ultimatum to that everyone stays on their own side is meaningless given they were at the same time trying to infiltrate Eris into the Federation.

    If the Dominion were serious with their ultimatum they would have interdicted the wormhole with a minefield as Sisko did or with ships. However, they didn't. By all accounts they gave the wormhole a wide berth and let the Federation and other AQ groups go about their business in the GQ.

    I suspect they did so to avoid the situation that occurred in "In Purgatory's Shadow". Any type of significant military activity near the wormhole would spook the Federation and they would close the wormhole. This would cut the Dominion off from several powerful threats they will only continue to grow as threats as time goes by. At that point the Dominion has a number of significant advantages over the regional powers in and around the Federation. Without the wormhole it might be several decades until they next meet and the Dominion's advantage might have evaporated in that time and it could be faced with large powerful empires run by solids that cannot be brought to order. It also aids the Dominion for traffic to remain travelling through the wormhole. It allows them to get Founders in and out as well as brings in enemy vessels that they can periodically prey on for information.
     
  5. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is that true? Can Turkey mine the Bosporus? Denmark, the Sund? I'm not sure of the legality of it, although I am sure closing those passages would have been regarded as extremely hostile acts by neighboring powers.
     
  6. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    ^ It was clearly a hostile act on the part of the Federation. However, I would argue that it wasn't a flat out declaration, or act, of war. The actual act of war came when the Dominion forced their way into Bajoran space to remove the mines.

    It would be the same for Turkey or Denmark. When another power tries to forcibly remove the mines from the Bosporus or Sund, that's the start of war.
     
  7. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Knowing the Federation, they were careful to wait until the Dominion attacked first before they attacked the shipyards.

    Their justification would be that the attack on the station was an act of war.

    It's pretty much common sense that the Federation would mine the wormhole once they realized what was happening; the Dominion had already attacked several ships patrolling the borders during the first few months they were there.
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    An act of war is whatever the participants define as an act of war. The US might have considered it an act of war by the USSR when a simple barbed wire fence was erected in turf that belonged neither to the US nor to the USSR... Political convenience dictated otherwise.

    The Dominion defined the mining of the wormhole mouth as an act of war. It was, then.

    However, the Federation never defined the blowing up of the Odyssey as an act of war. They were quite willing to tolerate it, and never went to war about it. Nor did they consider the attempted destruction of Bajor's star an act of war. Admittedly, in the first case it was initially difficult to contact the culprits, and in the second it was difficult to demonstrate their guilt. Nevertheless, the war did not start over either of these acts.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. GalaxyClass1701

    GalaxyClass1701 Captain Captain

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    The idea that the Federation shouldn't have mined the wormhole is ridiculos it was there territory!
     
  10. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And in doing so, they're going to step over boarders and onto people's toes- in this case, a paranoid and xeno-hateful people who were planning to take over the AQ anyway.

    We don't want to just ask, we want to take. Trust me- make a buffer... out of suns... between us and you.
     
  11. The Cutest of Borg

    The Cutest of Borg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That may be consistent with Federation ideals, but there's no on-screen evidence in Call to Arms that supports this. I'm sure the attack was carefully planned so they were sure the Dominion fleet was in route to DS9, but Sisko never sent any messages stating that they were under attack. They probably calculated how long it would take the fleet to reach DS9 and engage the station, but we don't know for certain who fired the first shots of the Dominion war.
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The wormhole being a natural choke point it should have been mined, in fact mined long before the Dominion was first contacted. But mined by whom? Bajor. Bajor wasn't a Federation member. Bajorians held sovereignty over their system and while the Federation has authority over DS9, I don't remember if the Federation possessed authority over the wormhole, although they certainly exercised control of it. For tech reasons Bajor most likely could not have mined the wormhole themselves and would have had to request that the Federation mine it for them. I'm suggesting command activated/detonated mines.

    The GQ end of the wormhole was outside of Dominion space, but they could have had a "Monroe Doctrine" view on the planetary systems surrounding their frontier. Establishing the Bajorian colony was not considered an act of war by the founders, the Bajorian colony was destroyed simply because an outside group "encroached" upon their space.

    *******************************************************
    The Monroe Doctrine was the declaration by President James Monroe, in December 1823, that the United States would not tolerate a European nation colonizing an independent nation in North or South America. Any such intervention in the western hemisphere would be considered a hostile act by the United States
     
  13. Renvar

    Renvar Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think the Dominion has any such need to receive or send any formal declaration of war. As Sisko said to Senator Vreenak (IT'S A FAAAAKE!), "the Founders see it as their sacred duty to impose order on the galaxy, their order." This effectively makes them at war with any species or government that does not capitulate to their rule. Even if the Federation didn't see it as justified for them to have destroyed the Bajoran colonies, I'm sure the Dominion did.
     
  14. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    True; the closest we'll get to any on screen mention, is when Sisko gives his speech before leaving the station, where he says while they kept the Dominion occupied, Starfleet crossed the border and destroyed the shipyards.

    No particular sequence is mentioned though.

    Based on past Starfleet behavior, Starfleet would wait, in order so it can be said they didn't fire the first shot that officially "started the war".
     
  15. The Cutest of Borg

    The Cutest of Borg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One other thought that just occurred to me... Bajor signed a non-aggression treaty with the Dominion. All Bajorans were ordered off DS9. Major Kira delivered an official protest from the Bajoran government for not surrendering the station to Bajoran authorities. In light of these circumstances, you can't really blame the Dominion for launching an assault on the station. They were, in a sense, coming to the aid of their friends who had asked the Federation to reliquish control of their space station. If Starfleet used the attack on DS9 as justification for attacking the shipyards, they would be on pretty shaky ground.
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She only did that because she was technically required to do so, AFAIK. She didn't actually believe in it.

    As for Bajor, wasn't its nonagression pact with the Dominion actually Sisko's idea in the first place?
     
  17. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, it was bajoran territory, the Federation had no right to mine the wormhole without Bajor's consent.
     
  18. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yep!
     
  19. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

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    Probably doesn't matter. Technically, the United States hasn't been at war since 1945. However, both Koreas have been in an ongoing state of war since 1950. Despite all of this, the U.S. has been involved in numerous military actions (Vietnam, Iraq etc.), while relations between the Koreas have been relatively uneventful most of the time (a cease-fire came into effect in 1953).

    If formal declarations of war are still as irrelevant in the 24th century as they were since WWII, then no declarations of war were ever exchanged between the Federation and the Dominion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  20. The Cutest of Borg

    The Cutest of Borg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True, and I'm sure the Council of Ministers felt the same way. But it was a political outcome of signing the agreement, and was legally binding. After Major Kira protested the Federation refusing to give up the station, Kira Nerys fought unofficially along side her friends.

    Actually, it was the Dominion's idea since they sent Weyoun to negotiate with Kai Winn. Bajor, however, was not going to sign it until the Emissary addressed them and told them it was in their best interest to sign it.

    I'm actually surprised there weren't more repercussions from Bajor breaking the non-aggression pact after Sisko retook DS9. Aside from Dukat's personal vendetta against Bajor, the Dominion never really responded aggressively against the Bajorans for the rest of the war.