Does "The Doomsday Machine" Remastered Really Add To the Episode?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Dayton3, May 4, 2009.

  1. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, that's the problem of giving the planet killer only firing point. In order for it to be effective, the target would always have to be in front somewhere.

    In the original episode, the Enterprise was firing over it and heading down toward the back. Obviously the planet killer wasn't shooting at it then, so it's just as plausible for them Enterprise to be strafing it from the other direction. Probably more plausible since they are now heading back into the planet killer's field of fire.

    Nah, they were just below par effects. The Enterprise wasn't firing "weak phasers," the PK was just too strong to be penetrated by them. That distinction makes the machine that much more formidable.

    There was no power in the beams, no sense of reality. Even earlier episodes had a glow around the beams at times, giving them a sense of energy. Plus, orange? Never before or since. They weren't the worst phaser effects in the series (Arena has those), but they were really cartoony.
     
  2. Cyrus

    Cyrus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's being shown again in syndication this coming weekend.
     
  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Admiral

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    The remastered episode?!?

    What channel?
     
  4. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    The strafing run made me groan. I liked the original choreography better, where it was more like two great ships trading broadsides.
     
  5. Cakes488

    Cakes488 Commodore Commodore

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    I guess it doesn't matter to me much...as long as the dialogue is the same...but if they were going to CGI TOS ....they should of went all out!
     
  6. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Admiral

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    I think the phaser shots by the Enterprise were actually more realistic in Doomsday Machine.

    I've seen lasers in real life and (though we're talking phasers, they should be similar) and they move so quickly they are simply there one second and gone the next. Literally on/off.

    Most of Treks phasers effects have been the "energy beam pouring out of the ship" variety. Where you can actually watch the beam as it exits the Enterprise and heads toward a target.

    That would never happen in real life. Though then again, in space you can't actually see beam weapons when they are fired (or so I've read).

    But the "strafing run" is not consistent with dialogue.

    The dialogue indicates that Decker was going to take the Enterprise in and hit the Planet Killer with "full phasers at point blank range".

    Like I said, I might've like to have seen two additional angles of the Enterprise firing on the Planet Killer, but the strafing run sounds ridiculous
     
  7. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, let’s forget “realistic” in the strict sense that you are going by, since we’re talking phasers shot out of a fictional spacecraft. How they compare to real life 21st century laser beams is irrelevant. However, what I am saying is, in most episodes, the Enterprise looks like she is actually shooting destructive energy beams. They convey this by animating a solid line with an overlay of a “glow” that bleeds off the sides. The later phaser shots normally used, with the pulsating energy, look more like what I would consider actual beams of energy.

    The phasers in the original cut of the episode look like solid yellow lines with no feeling of force or energy. They have no depth, no dimension and no power. You don’t have to hate them, but the production team had done more convincing phasers before and since.

    This does not contradict what is seen. The Enterprise is still firing point blank. Point Blank range doesn’t mean “head on, face to face” it means “extreme close range.” A man can take a gun, walk up behind a guy and fire into the back of his head without him ever knowing the shooter was there. Yet, he just shot the guy point blank in the head.

    Since we never heard Decker give the specific course, speed and firing pattern, nothing at all in the dialog tells us a close range strafing run is incorrect. What is the best way to get close enough to fire point blank without being shot down first? You come in from the direction most difficult for the machine to fire toward. It’s the same as killing the guy from behind. From “behind and above” is pretty tough for the PK to adjust and aim. It makes 100% perfect sense. The rendered image can still not appeal to you or not be “what you would have done,” but it’s still valid.

    As I said up the thread some, there are a few errors in the new effects, but this isn’t one of them.

    Well, you said yourself that you haven’t seen it yet. Check it out when it airs and then judge. Until then, you’re just assuming it sucks.
     
  8. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed on both counts. While the FX is window dressing, it's much better window dressing in the TOS-R version. Now if they'd just fixed that '1017' into '1710.' :)
     
  9. Cyrus

    Cyrus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, the remastered episode. I don't what channel in your area. It's a syndicated show so it will be on different channels in different markets. If your cable or satellite system has a guide you should be able to do a search for "star trek".
     
  10. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A few points.

    a) the Enterprise appeared to be towing the Constellation in the original episode, as there is a down shot of the Constellation looking down between the Enterprise's engines that shows they are holding a relative position, and moments later Spock reports that the Planet Killer is pursuing them and that they are able to maintain their distance, and it's then that Kirk tries to beam over and the Enterprise gets clobbered. If the ship were running away without the Constellation in tow, I doubt they'd have gone to the trouble to make that effects shot of the ships facing the same way.

    b) The strafing run is fine with the dialog, but the swooping of the Enterprise is silly.

    c) The energy effect in the maw doesn't look illuminated. Frankly, it looks cold: a common problem with CGI rendered energy and light effects. Most animators forget that to look bright the a light source has to look almost white (with a halo of more saturated color if it's not white light).
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  11. Basil

    Basil Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was fine with the original series' take, where space battles weren't dogfights but brief contests involving powerful ships in limited engagements in the vastness of space. The SFX in the remastered version of The Doomsday Machine are more detailed, but the style of movement and camera angles is often inconsistent with the style of TOS in general, making the scenes sometimes stand out for all the wrong reasons.
     
  12. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    I just thought it was too damn dark. It also would've been nice if they'd make the Constellation look structurally more like the AMT model, but they didn't have the time and budget to set that up.
     
  13. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    I prefer the originals to the RMs. The new effects are interesting once. After that, I want to see the episode as it was made,an artifact of its time, warts and all.
     
  14. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    With TRANSPARENCY!
     
  15. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Actually unless the ship is totallyat a dead stop in space (stupid), a strafing run is the ONLY way to hit the PK at point blank range and still get away. It makes perfect sense with the dialgoue.

    RAMA
     
  16. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Indeed. :vulcan:
     
  17. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll grant you that. Still, as many episodes demonstrated, the shots don't necessarily illustrate "exactly" what was supposed to be happening, sometimes they would do the best they could to give the impression (which is why the battles as composed of individual ship shots and not composities). And since they never actually used an animated beam effect for the tractor (a feature I always liked BTW) , we have no idea if the overhead shot was supposed to represent the 1017 being towed or just the Enterprise in an "along side" sort of position. You could be absolutely right, but that's the fun part: so could I. :-)

    It's the "moments later" that causes the issue, IMO. Moments later, Spock says they (which could mean just the Enterprise or both ships) are maintaining their distance.

    However, Kirk doesn't even mention towing the Constellation to Spock, he even closes his communicator after giving the order to beam up Bones and Decker. He still has to "get her ready" for towing. Moments later (in the enhanced version), the Constellation is secure in the tractor beam.

    The best evidence I have to support my view is the dialog regarding the tractor beam and the fact that nobody on the 1017 seems to be at all affected by the attack, since even acceleration is felt on Star Trek. However, Spock's dialog and the possibility of the original shot representing the towing could very well bring it the other way.

    As much as I do really enjoy how much the episode is opened up and exciting with the enhanced effects, I generally watch the original version, transparencies, yellow phasers, AMT kit and all. I always like original versions. I've said it often (probably in this thread too), I love being able to choose on a whim.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2009
  18. Hambone

    Hambone Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I love the original episode, but the poor special effects (especially the close-up of the Constellation entering the Planet Killer near the ending) take me out of the story. I feel the re-mastering is an improvement and only serves to assist the character-driven storyline.
     
  19. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well put!
     
  20. SPOCKED

    SPOCKED Admiral Premium Member

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    Both versiions have their plusses and minuses. I was in nerd heaven the night the RM finally aired.


    Ok, I was drunkl :wtf:

    :devil: