Does nu-Trek exclude Enterprise too?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by YARN, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Enterprise was involved in a complicated timeline war from way in the future.

    When Nero took the Narada into the past he changed the timeline (e.g., he blew up Vulcan!). This means the future of that timeline was changed, which means the past timeline of Enterprise changed too (because its past was causally enmeshed with a post-TNG future).

    Nero changed the future.

    Enterprise was causally connected with the future. A huge chunk of the Enterprise narrative depends heavily on the time war (including character arcs, relationships, and the purpose mission of the ship). Enterprise characters were communicating, cooperating, and conflicting with factions from the future.

    Nero, by necessity, changed any and all aspects of the Enterprise story that depended on future events that Nero changed.

    And where is the "temporal police" in all this?
     
  2. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    If you want it
  3. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Apparently the "Temporal Police" aren't all that good at their job. Throughout all the multiple timeline infractions in 40+ years of Trek, they were only seen twice, and in both instances it turned out that they were in fact the cause of the problems they were trying to fix.
     
  4. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2001
    Location:
    California
    Budget crunch.
     
  5. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Location:
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Butterfly effect.
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Word of God (Bob Orci over at Trekmovie.com) says it's a branching timeline beginning in 2233, that it's one shared history up until that point. And since it's a shared past, it would include all the time travels up and down from the prime-branch (and other branches) of the future and thus include the TCW, First Contact, Time's Arrow etc.

    [​IMG]
    This is the Holy Bible of Star Trek time travel. It takes dozens of seemingly incompatible time travel Treks over 45 years and makes it seem as if they all function as part of a single system with a consistent set of rules. It explains a lot of the TCW, exposes Future Guy, gives us a look at the DTI and a peek at the uptime agencies seen in Voyager and Enterprise and how they all interact. Plus it's an excellent story in it's own right. Highly recommended.
     
  7. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    My first impression in 2009 was that, yes, the one element of Star Trek lore that does remain fully intact into the Nu-Trek universe was Enterprise. Both parallels of Star Trek share Jonathan Archer and the NX-01 in their collective histories.
     
  8. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 1999
    Location:
    Switzerland
    New Trek doesn't really exclude or invalidate anything.
     
  9. SonicRanger

    SonicRanger Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2001
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I've postulated before that plenty of debris all got sucked into the black hole/wormhole with Spock and Nero, whose ships emerged in different times (and places?) according to variables like their sizes and speeds (variables that Nero could be able to calculate and use to identify when and where Spock would emerge). I figure that black hole scattered debris (and perhaps energy) throughout the time, including a few rocks and cosmic rays that could have set the nuTrek universe on a slightly different path long before 2233.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Exactly. In order for the new universe to exist, everything that happened in the Prime timeline still had to happen or else Spock and Nero wouldn't have existed to create the new timeline to begin with.
     
  11. Shikarnov

    Shikarnov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Location:
    Texas (Connecticut & Ivanovo in years past)
    I second this recommendation. The DTI books are some of the very best of the post-Nemesis novels. Thank goodness for David Mack with his excellent Cold Equations series, otherwise I'd be going out of my mind waiting for the next DTI installment (which is coming out when, exactly? Does anybody know?).
     
  12. Balrog

    Balrog Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Location:
    Balrog
    How about this:

    The timeline was already corrupted because of the Borg's attempt to assimilate earth in the past. As a result, we have (or had) this alternate timeline through ENT, including the TCW, future guy, the early introduction of the Borg, the Ferengi and the Romulans, and the accidental destruction of Romulus that caused the currant further divergence of the timeline.

    In other words, this alternate timeline exists because of the events set in motion starting with First Contact and it's all Berman and Braga's fault.
     
  13. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    ^ My recollection is that Berman/Braga have even acknowledged NX-01's existence as being because of a timeline change following First Contact. The mention of Admiral Archer in the 2009 film confirms that it takes place after NX-01.
     
  14. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    No, Enterprise happened.
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Yeah, but "In a Mirror, Darkly" and "These are the Voyages" corfirms Star Trek: Enterprise's place in Trek Prime's history books, too. They cannot be ignored.
     
  16. Balrog

    Balrog Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Location:
    Balrog
    ENT was from a more similar timeline to the prime TOS universe, but different enough in key events that led to this completely alternate reality in ST09.
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Then why are details of the NX-01's missions in the USS Defiant's logs (lost in TOS: "The Tholian Web") in "In a Mirror, Darkly"? If ENT were from the nuTrek timeline only, the Defiant would have looked like the 2009 ship and TNG in "These are the Voyages" would have been completely unrecognizable.

    Plus, Seven of Nine mentioned the Borg's attempt to stop First Contact a couple of times in Voyager. Retcons and coninuity errors aside, it's all supposed to be the same timeline.
     
  18. Balrog

    Balrog Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Location:
    Balrog
    Three timelines:

    TOS prime timeline

    TOS timeline affected by events of FC (creating ENT)

    ST09 alternate timeline affected by events of ENT
     
  19. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    There's certainly some cross contamination between timelines - not only Spock Prime, but isn't Data's head buried somewhere in San Francisco ?

    Would such entanglement (especially if Data's head is discovered and activated) lead to the two timelines to reconverge sometime in the future ?

    And if so, what happens to Vulcan/Romulus ?
     
  20. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    There is no such timeline. ENT was always part of the timeline, even in TOS. There was never a timeline where it was not.

    As for FC, it was a predestination paradox. It, like ENT, was always supposed to happen.