Does it make me a bad person, if I agree with Brannon Braga?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by JanewayRulz!, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seven was soulless. (in the Beginning)

    That's neutral.

    It was B'Elanna who was the opposite of Kes,

    A constant monstrous rebellious contentious firey explosion of emotion and passion thrashing against everything.

    (in the beginning)

    Everyone homogenized quick enough.
     
  2. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seven was a great concept for a character, but she was sabotaged with the idiotic catsuit. That undermined any credibility she might have had as a real character and just made her an object and a smutty joke.

    The right way to do a character like that is to envision her being a male character. The core of the character shouldn't be sexual, since that's not the core of the Borg. The core of the Borg is that they represent a threat to individual human identity, and that is certainly more than enough for some great stories. So if you want to cast a woman in the role, fine, if she's really the best actor of all the ones you audition. But gender shouldn't be on the casting sheet.

    Kes just didn't have the dramatic oomph that any Borg, male or female, would have brought to the show. In retrospect, a male Borg character would have been better, if only because there would have been less temptation to turn the character into a joke. But if the producers had shown some good taste and restraint, there's no reason Jeri Ryan couldn't have been perfectly good as well.

    Threshold
    was a decent enough idea for a show, and hey, it had a actor that turned out to be an Emmy winner! So someone in the casting dept was on the ball anyway. :bolian:
     
  3. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^Which actor are you talking about? :confused:
     
  4. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They won an emmy for visual effects or something not acting.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    if we're talking about awards... Here's what I don't understand... If Star Trek First Contact lost the Academy award to "the Nutty Professor II the Clumps" why then did they take to heart all those Borg props and Borg wardrobe when they should have just been making fatsuits for alternate versions of the characters played by the same actors for some colossal "Mirror War"?
     
  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, it doesn't make you a bad person.

    But it won't change my opinion about Braga.

    I give him all credit for his work with TNG and the first seasons of Voyager. But I will never forgive him for "Fury" and the destruction of Kes.

    I didn't like how Kes was dumped in season 4 and honestly I don't think that Seven added that much to the show. In fact, Voyager already had nine very good characters so I see no reason to bring in another one.

    But "Fury" was the main insult and the main reason why I don't like Braga.
     
  7. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    "Threshold" is a guilty pleasure I must admit. I liked Seven fine when she was introduced although I think they wrecked her character in the second half of Season 7. I do wish they didn't get rid of Kes though. It would have been fun to see how the two interacted.
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Threshold is a fine sci fi story and then it goes loopy. However it's a loopiness that is pretty funny and while dumb it certainly was not boring. To me a really bad is ep is either incredibly boring or portrays the people very out of character in a way that is grating to watch. I can think of only one bit of VOY that grated on me like that and it was in an otherwise awesome ep.
     
  9. Kass18

    Kass18 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Personally I like Threshold. Yes I can see why people don't like it and theres aspects in it in which I cringe, but overall it definitely has enough humour in it to make me like it.

    I was sad when Kes left but I agree with her need to go, she wasn't a particularly interesting character and didn't hold that much fascination and importance in the series. So when Seven came to the show I instantly liked her, she brought a spark to the show and sped up its course and gave way to new and exciting plots with the borg encounters and such.

    However I am finding that though important to introduce her to the show by incorporating her into a lot of the episodes heavily, it seems as though they have seemed to forget about the rest of the cast as they seem to be included more in the background of the episodes. But I'm only half way through season 5, I guess that may change as I watch more. But either way Seven has made a fantastic addition to the show.

    But when watching earlier seasons of Voyager with Kes in it, I instantly feel a sense of longing for her back because I miss her. So I do love both characters.
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The core of 7 was NOT sexual. Just because she was in a catsuit doesn't make HER a sexual person. I think that is made pretty clear right from the beginning. They may have planned out a sexy addition to VOY to sex it up but what they got was a highly developed intellectual character who fulfilled the Spock role. Any sexy qualities she had as a person were also kin to the Spock role (the struggle with humanity and emotions, who can open this person up etc..)

    The character was far bigger than what she was presented as being initially thanks to great writing and great acting. They wanted sexy but what they got was one of the most developed characters in Star Trek and one that epitomized some of the deepest Trek themes.
     
  11. RaymondJames

    RaymondJames Captain Captain

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    I did enjoy Kes greatly but Seven of Nine was needed. Seven brought the show more Borg and with that came darker episodes and a deeper feeling about the show in general. Like Data in TNG, She needed to work towards humanity, in her case however, it was regaining her humanity and at first it was a reluctant pursuit. With her annd the EMH, the show thrived and allowed itself to stand out as a different show than the others. Prior to seven, aside from a few epsiodes the show was warm and light hearted so it needed a good injection of the darker elements.
     
  12. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think Kes and Seven together might have made it the show more clumbsy and a little redundant by having two characters learning to "grow up". It would have made Seven come off as the "bad sister" while Kes came off as "good" and it might have ruined the intent they had behind Seven while further blanding down Kes.. the "sibling" rivalry between B'Elanna/Seven is more balanced.
     
  13. Jeff O'Connor

    Jeff O'Connor Commodore Commodore

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    I agreed with Brannon about everything he said in this recent two-part interview of his. I dropped a comment on startrek.com's original article telling him if I knew his email I'd have sent him some positive feedback for a change.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    By that time, if they kept to the original concept, Kes should have been middle aged, about 40 in human terms, in mind if not body, and watching Seven discover her humanity SO FUCKING SLOWLY would have made her wonder if Anika was just a little bit retarded or backward.
     
  15. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They did keep with the original concept.:lol:
    Kes was supposed to be so overly curious, she's wander off from safety to explore unknown.
    She did it when she left the Ocampan city to go to the surface.
    She did it again when she defied her people to go off with strangers on Voyager.
    She thought about leaving Voyager in "Coldfire" & again in "Darkling" to be with a man she hardly knew.
    So when she requested it again in "The Gift", Janeway said "if you still wanna go so bad, C-Ya!"
    So basically, while Kes was book smart she didn't have any street smarts.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, I think she just kept looking for new streets.
     
  17. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She found skid row. :lol:
     
  18. starlitegirl

    starlitegirl Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree that Seven really was a great addition. Possibly the greatest cast addition to any show I can remember. However, Kes had so much more to offer. Don't know why they had to get rid of her. Idiot should've tossed Kim. I don't care what poll had him in the top ten. How many women have ever STOPPED watching a show because some supposedly hot character left? Seriously? Perhaps if it was some kind of pivotal character, but even then, we're far less likely to stop watching and lord knows it's not as if he was gaining any viewers.
     
  19. starlitegirl

    starlitegirl Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I could see this point years ago when she was first added, but at some point down the line it dawned on me that given she spent her adult life in a borg suit I can actually see how it would make sense she would choose something that is as close to that as possible. Those of us that think of it as a catsuit haven't really thought about how a borg existed in rubber latex looking body cases. If you're coming out of borg existence, that might be the most 'efficient' article of clothing to choose. It covers the skin. All that's needed. Sure, it was for sex appeal, but given how Seven was all about efficiency, I can see the appeal of it. Nothing to fuss with ever.
     
  20. ToddPence

    ToddPence Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Threshold" was not nearly as bad as "Sacred Ground".
     

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