Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    The entire point of my quote is that Admiral Janeway claims she is doing this for Chakotay and Seven (and to a lesser extent, Tuvok), when in reality she is doing it because their location in proximity to the transwarp hub is convenient.

    She lies to us. Just as your example with Troi, she cares more about the mission than the people; the difference being, Janeway uses catharsis to make us believe otherwise.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Admiral Janeway actually wanted them to sneak through that Enemy Mine, she should have brought an advanced cloaking device with her, not armour. The Admiral's problem was that what ever she told her younger self to do, young Kathryn would fight her against her own selfinterest becuase she's bitter, surly and contrary, so the admiral had to "shape" the mission parameter so that young kathryn would rebel as expected and needed for the day to be won out.
     
  3. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's not the impression I got due to the fact that several times they show that she herself isn't happy with the life she has back in the AQ because she feels her family isn't complete. She even says several times how hardned she's become due too and how it's made her forget the optimistic person she used to be. It mirrors exactly what Seven says in "Imprefection", that Janeway will never get over Seven dying. Janeway doesnt do it for her crew or for any hub, she does it for herself because after all her struggles of trying to get home she herself came home to nothing. She lost her best friend to mental illness and her potential mate and adopted daughter to death. Adm. Janeway is an example of a parent who's child has died before they do. Janeway hates that she is like Ransom and goes back to a time where she can get them home before she become that.
    While it maybe selfish, it's very human.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh no. I wasn't doubting what drove her into the past, I just talking about the kid gloves the old lady had to use to manoeuvre her younger self into doing exactly what she wanted her to do. If Admiral Janeway said "I want to sneak through" then Janeway would have instantly rebelled and declared that they will attack the Borg because it the most righteous thing they can do... Meanwhile if Admiral Janeway said that she wanted to attack the Borg, it is then that our Captain would have said "No, we must quietly sneak through because we'll lose good people in a brawl it's doubtful we can completely come out on top of."

    I used the word "contrary" to describe her character and Captain Braxton would agree with me.

    Janeway can't always be the hero with the real deal plan unless she bullies and ridicules everyone else into admitting that they are wrong with bad plans... Which is me just overstating how often a device used by writers, is for minor characters to walk out shitty foolish ideas no one should ruminate so that the hero can shoot down whereafter said hero looks more intelligent and even more amazing.

    Notice how in Void when Tuvok suggested that they murder every one one they meet and take their shit, but it was wise Janeway who reasoned out logically eventually that piracy and murder is naughty and wrong, and right now it just wasn't a good fit for the direction she thought about taking the ship in.
     
  5. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, I wasn't replying to you Guy.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :)

    I get caught out like that all the time.
     
  7. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    She brought both. Through some magical television macguffin, the armor was compatible with Voyager's technology but the advanced cloaking device was not.

    Recall that Admiral Janeway parked her shuttlecraft at the doors of the Unimatrix Complex.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And you don't think that that was on purpose?