Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So which Void was the most like the one between Kim's ears?
     
  2. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Really??
    You've rarely given most of the episodes from any season lower than a 6 in your ratings, so you've given the impression that you've been enjoying the entire series for the most part.
     
  3. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    Probably the static warp bubble from TNG, the one Beverly gets stuck in and keeps shrinking.
     
  4. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But.. the bitching!

    I'm picturing Kim now with a Void Where Prohibited sticker across his mouth.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's one sealing up his bunghole too.
     
  6. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I bet the NOH8 campaign would be even more popular if they included that photo option.
     
  7. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Well, the scores I give are somewhat relative. As in, an 8/10 means that an episode is well above average next to other episodes of the same show. But if you took an 8/10 on Voyager and compared it to an 8/10 on say TNG or DS9, the latter episodes would win out in my favor.

    So with that said, most of my complaints about Voyager are due to the high standard its predecessors TNG and DS9 set. It's a fine show, don't get me wrong, it just doesn't have the same complexity, drama, and development that made DS9 and TNG so great.
     
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So, a 8/10 on DS9 & TNG means more than a 8/10 for Voyager, because you like DS9 & TNG more?
    That's a pretty bias way to rate & review, don't you think?
     
  9. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    I didn't come into this show with any kind of bias. The previous Star Trek shows I watched set a very high standard, so my hope and expectation was that Voyager would measure up. It hasn't, and that is not a result of any bias, but rather a result of some of the poor decision-making by the show runners.
     
  10. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But you started rating the episodes out of 10 before you knew what the quality of the average episode was really like so does this new rating idea you're now presenting (which I find confusing and really don't like that sfdebris uses it) is only relevant to very recent ratings?

    Anyway I don't think the quality of season 6 and season 7 are suddenly much higher rather that you've had a break and are able to now enjoy Voyager for what it is rather than be bogged down by the frustration of expecting better in the former seasons. If you ever rewatch seasons 1/4/5, you'll probably find they're really not that different in quality from 6 and 7.
    The same thing happened with me, on a rewatch when my bitterness towards Voyager subsided and learned to enjoy it on it's own merits.
     
  11. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then I'm sorry to say, I don't find your ratings system makes much sense because it's never reflected that you've been disappointed by the poor decision making on the direction of the characters or the show itself. It seems what you like changes every time you take a break and come back. At one point you were saying how s4-5 were great, you took a break, came back and said you weren't sure you wanted to finish the show because it wasn't good enough for you anymore. Now you're watching it again, now s6-7 are better and now your current favorite. It just seems there's very little consistency
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Marking on a curve.

    The best Voyager is a 10, the worst Voyager is a one.

    or

    Giving marking meritoriously.

    Anything where Anne Hathaway takes her top off is a 10 and almost any episode of the US version of Antiques Road Show is a one.
     
  13. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But the one's are often the most talked about or poked at so they provide the most amusement so they are really 10's.
     
  14. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Workforce Parts 1 and 2: Very solid 2 part episode. The continuity has been stunning this season, and this episode was no exception. Tom and Belanna's child and marriage once again played a major role in their scenes together, even though they didn't remember one another. There were references to Tom's time as a prisoner before Voyager, 7's nack for efficiency was put to good use by making her the efficiency officer, the Doctor was for the second time made a command officer, Neelix's ship again made for a good plot device getting Chakotay and Neelix to the planet........
    There was nice romance with Janeway and her lover who I cannot remember the name of. I thought the plot involving the memory wiping doctor was interesting. There was plenty of excitement in this one, very little if anything to complain about.
    8/10

    Human Error: This was a very unusual episode, and I did not like the ending one bit. Is 7 just going back to business like usual? That would make her fantasy romance with Chakotay completely meaningless. I hope they follow up on this...
    All that said, this was another good exploration of 7's character and her evolution. I'm hesitant to say anymore than that though until they actually do something with the events of this episode. A romance like this is too interesting not to follow up. The hot babe and the older native american guy? I'm on the edge of my seating waiting to see what happens next......

    And nothing happens in the next one, of course. I'll keep waiting.

    6/10


    Q2: Well he improved at the end, but for the first half or more I couldn't stand the new Q. What an obnoxious character! He wasn't funny or the least bit likable. The saving grace of this episode is that it was entertaining, but not in a complex or intelligent way. I liked seeing the original Q again. John de Lancie always gives terrific performances, even if he's surrounded by pig schlock in a terrible story.
    5/10
     
  15. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    To your first point: It's possible that my older scores are a little less relevant because a certain standard has been defined. In defense of my scoring system, I did not too long ago go back and make slight adjustments to some of my original scores, but only slight adjustments. Nothing has changed by more than one point, and many scores have stayed the same.

    And actually, I really do believe the show has reached it's peak in these last two seasons. The show has developed a far stronger sense of continuity, which in turn has allowed for some really great character development. Tom and Belanna have benefited the most, and if they follow up the 7/Chakotay romance that will only help Chakotay's character, who has been sorely underutilized the entire show (although let's be honest, was he ever that interesting to begin with). The writing has also really blossomed, I believe. We've seen a lot of great guest stars these last two seasons and some really meaningful stories that served as more than just filler and really advanced the plot and characters.

    EDIT: In season 6 one of my now favorite characters was introduced; Icheb. They've done more with his character than a lot of the regulars who've been with the show since the start. It's like they were bored with what they had, so they decided to throw in someone new and more interesting to spice things up. It worked.
     
  16. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    You're in for a surprise.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What would have been fun, was if Chakotay shows up to a formal dinner in a Kilt and while every one is looking at him cockeyed, he says "Oh, didn't I ever mention? My mother is Scottish?"
     
  18. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Author, Author: The holonovel scenes were absurd, but hilarious! Very similar episode to TNG's Measure of a Man, this time dealing with the rights of holograms instead of androids. This seems to be a theme this season, the two part Flesh and Blood dealt with similar material. I'm really glad this show is keeping the continuity strong; once again we check in with Barclay and Admiral Paris, and they become involved in the trial at the very end. I do think it's ridiculous that it took the Doctor so long to realize that his holonovel would be offensive to his crewmates; how could he not see the obvious similarities between the two crews from the very start? He's more perceptive than that....
    7/10

    Friendship One: I didn't quite follow.....how again did the probe cause the radiation problem? Otherwise a fine episode. Even though it had been eons since we last saw Carrey (or was it more recent, something tells me it was) his death was still tragic and caught be by surprise. Similar to Tasha's death in Skin of Evil, although that death carried more weight because she was a regular cast member and her death was much more senseless.
    I liked the aliens in this episode, and felt genuine sympathy for them. The ending of the episode struck a chord with me, seeing their planet lit up and saved.
    7/10
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The aliens found the probe, stripped it of technology, and built a society underpinned by it's ecological irresponsibleness.

    This is what everyone in the Delta Quadrant thinks when they see Voyager for the first time.

    Carey was in 7 stories. (8 if you count Caretaker as 2 episodes.)

    this one.

    Fury which was set in season one.

    Relativity in the bit which was set before season one.

    And four more which were season one.
     
  20. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, I mentioned that we'd see Carey one more time way back in post #1581. Now that he's dead, keep this in mind, especially considering how close to the end of the series we are. It's really bullshit what they did to the Carey character. That guy had a wife and kids at home, man!