Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Interesting points about the Kazon. I have found it odd that Voyager continues to encounter them despite the fact that they are headed home. Unless the Kazon want to go home with them? :lol:

    Since it's Christmas Eve I decided to watch the Polar Express. But, afterwards I just couldn't help myself, so I watched another episode of Voyager.

    Deadlock: A solid parallel universe episode with some exciting and also genuinely sad moments; the death of Kim at the beginning, the death of the baby, seeing Voyager torn apart, seeing the Vidiians sweep through the other Voyager and take down everyone in their path, the self destruction of the other Voyager.
    All in all a solid episode, although not exceptional. It felt a little too much like a reset button episode since Kim and the baby didn't really die, and by the end of the episode the damaged Voyager was back in tip top shape as if nothing had happened. Not a major complaint, but worth noting.
    7/10
     
  2. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    I know what you mean. While it is strange that the Kazon keep appearing, it's not something that's bothering me at all. Why complain if the episodes are entertaining?
     
  3. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I love me some "Deadlock", it did ship destruction and exploding consoles better than any other episode - I loved that sound effect when the proton burst is coming, really requires listening with headphones though haha. It definitely did feel resetty and the end mars the episode a little bit - why is Kim so nonchalant about the traumatic experience he just went through? Well probably because Wang can't act...

    Regarding BSG and the Cylons showing up - the BSG ships didn't travel as wide a distance as warp-ships, nowhere near as much. And they actually had the technology to keep up if required and were MORE advanced than the humans. It seemed like the Kazon ships probably couldn't go faster than warp 5 given their technology but for some reason can keep up with Voyager?
     
  4. Lord Manitou

    Lord Manitou Commander Red Shirt

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    No-one should under-estimate the value of 'Deadlock' since the writers put enough care into it to make it a solid episode. The best parts is where both B'Elannas and Janeways are trying to communicate with their radio and Janeway jumps through and they communicate directly to each other. The Bidiians are awfully smart but they are not smart enough to leave us alone.
    The Kazons simply made the ships go fast the same as other races that get there first. I think them and their first maj's are cool studs and they don't think about warp factor.
     
  5. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My sentiments exactly.
    However....
    Voyager was the only ship in that quaderant with a Federation warp signal, so it was easy to track. There was an ep. where Seska mentions this as does Janeway when looking for lost shuttles.
    Season 3s "Distant Origin" shows another way to track them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
  6. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    It's amazing then that the Equinox didn't run into the Borg then. The Borg showed up more often because Voyager was had simple gone though their region of space. Each story should be taken on a story by story basis though and not taken as a whole.
     
  7. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No spoilers DWF!
     
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Without giving anything away.
    Remember what the Equinox was doing?
    I assumed what they were doing pushed them well beyond or around Borg space, so they never were detected.
    Best guess.
     
  9. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Just watched another two episodes.

    Innocence: The reverse-aging premise is ridiculous, and the child acting is, as usual with child actors, pretty rotten. I do think, though, that Tuvok gave a very good performance. I liked the way he interacted with the children.
    3/10

    The Thaw: Funny, creepy, and exciting all at once! I loved the way the Doctor and Janeway interacted with the Clown, and the Clown gave a marvelous performance! A very solid episode.
    7/10
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed on both.
    I love Tuvok's line in "Innocence"
    Girl Child: "Tuvok, what are your kids like?"
    Tuvok: "Well Behaved." :guffaw:
     
  11. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Hahaha! Yes, that was the high point of the episode.
     
  12. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    I've had some time to mull over this episode, and I now think that The Thaw is more deserving of an 8. This episode was just completely and terrifyingly bizarre, but in an amazing way. One thing I forgot to mention that I really loved was the very ending as Fear and the whole world around him faded away into the darkness. It was very eerie and chilling, and the perfect way to conclude this episode.
     
  13. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm glad you upgraded "The Thaw", I love nearly everything about it. It has a real feeling of TOS or early TNG in the story and the way its filmed. It was wacky and genuinely creepy.
    As for "Innocence"...that was just filler crap, like they seriously couldn't come up with better story ideas than this?
     
  14. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Tuvix: The crew of Voyager prove in this episode that they are all amoral cowards. I can't believe that every single one of them would stand by as Tuvix is taken to his execution.
    As for my evaluation of the episode, I don't believe that Tuvix became truly interesting until the moral dilemma was introduced two thirds of the way through. With all of that in mind, I believe that Tuvix is an above average episode with a terrific finale.
    6/10
     
  15. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If this had been TOS, and it had been Spock and McCoy fused together, no one would've complained over having them restored.
     
  16. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    As much as Tuvix might be a good guy and a "real person," he was still a transporter accident, and his existence meant the death of two other people. Given the option, I would have stood by as well if it meant the restoration of my original friends.

    What was a little disappointing was that we really didn't see how Neelix and Tuvok felt about the situation after they had been restored.
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd certainly like to think I would have. Nice to see that a crew sent out to seek out new life forms is willing to kill a unique one.

    How long is Tuvix allowed to exist without a way to restore Tuvok and Neelix being found before his body becomes "rightfully" his? I'm trying to imagine living your life in perpetual fear that you'll get a message from your doctor saying, "Hey, come on down here so we can kill you."

    I still think it would have been poetic justice if the restoration attempt had resulted in all 3 of them dying.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Forgetful or were you making a joke?
     
  19. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the episode took a natural approach to things. Janeway knew they could debate "Tuvix" and his right to live for years and never come to a conclusion so they just did what she and Kes wanted with morals be damned - get Tuvok and Neelix back because at the heart of it - 2 lives is more than one.
    I approved of her decision.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Tuvix was three poeple.

    Tuvok, Neelix and Tuvix.

    Janeway killed three people to make two people.

    A couple weeks later, Kes dumps Neelix under the thrall of an alien Warlord. Off screen, after the credits (I hear Ethan supposed at a convention once.), she must have confirmed Neelix that the Alien symbiont controlling her, didn't give a shit so well about his feelings as to be more honest about her own waning feelings for Neelix, which she cared too much for him to be so honest as to mention aloud that the site of him was beginning to make her sick.

    What if Tuvix occurred after Warlord?

    No Kes in Neelix's corner, browbeating Janeway.

    Hang on.

    Kes must have loved him less after the Tuvix incident, because of the Tuvix incident.

    Surely?

    Is it because Neelix was less Neelix than he used to be?

    NUlix was still too much Tuvix and Tuvok that he was not the same magnificent man that she fell in love with. that this half Neelix they were trying to pass off as the real McCoy did not cut the mustard.

    Which could have just been her imagination.

    Or...

    A months separation led into Kes creating an idealized version of Neelix in her mind, An UBer Neelix (Imagine a hedgehog that was almost supersonic.), who she prayed would return from that Quantum entangled mess and make her toes curl and... An impossibly cutting figure which Neelix could not possibly compete with.

    Or...

    Neelix liked being Tuvix and resented Kes for murdering him, and that resentment made him treat her differently and it pissed her off to the point that the Warlord expressed the little girls distress for her, and they're broken up.

    oR...

    kes couldn't forgive Neelix for wanting to be Tuvix and for abandoning her. You know like how idiots blame rape victims for being raped and think of them as damaged or unclean (i'm looking at you "Everyone in India".). Westly clearly said that death doesn't stop true love, it just slows it down a little, and the hedgehog wasn't even dead but he still preferred to snuggle into Tuvoks DNA rather than her warm embrace,

    or...

    Mingling with Tuvok like that, was in a sense cheating on her. And I don';t mean that Neelix was cheating on Kes. I mean that Tuvok was cheating on T'Pel, and more importantly that Tuvok wasn't cheating on T'Pel with her. She clearly wanted the Vulcan bad but had respect for his nuptials that she didn't tap that, but have you ever been in a threesome and somehow found that you're just playing with your self as the rest of the menage a trois rolls over towards the other side of the bed?

    Spurned!

    She loved Neelix enough to kill for him, but not enough to let him be happy.

    You, know.

    "The usual"