Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. WarpCore

    WarpCore Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Two more to go and you should run into one of the best of season 2 imo, and I think you'll like Dreadnought. You seem to have started with a distaste for DQ species, and it's a nice break from that. I don't think that's too much of a spoiler since you get that feeling in the first few minutes.

    After that...

    Death Wish is bleh

    Lifesigns is pretty boring but sets up at least 3 later episodes

    Investigations is average unless you really like Neelix then it's great

    Deadlock is overall good Trek
    I bet a lot of people wish it was written and used as the season finale without Kim coming back. lol I believe that was the original plan for the episode.

    Innocence is solid Trek as well

    The Thaw is annoying as hell imo

    Tuvix ... not my taste. why doesn't he weigh 400lbs?

    Resolutions
    It could have been written as a 2 part season finale. And it's a story they could have used as filler at any point in the series.

    Basics has a few good parts but most of it feels stretched to fill 2 hours.
     
  2. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    RE: your Deadlock spoiler - no they didn't, you're thinking about "Scorpion".

    I don't know why you're hyping up "Dreadnought", its nothing to shout from the hills about. "Deadlock", "The Thaw", "Tuvix" and "Lifesigns" are season 2's highlights, no offense but you have bad taste. Resolutions as a 2 part finale!?
    Anyway, its best not to set up any expectations for admiralscreed for future episodes, I'm sure he'd prefer to enter into them without having any, any episode is more enjoyable that way!
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  3. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh, it's much worse than that because they didn't even break the rules. They considered breaking the rules, but then they had the bright idea of hosting a peace conference instead, and when that blew up in their faces Janeway blames it on the fact that they broke the rules, but they didn't! And nobody in the room dares to point out that her perception of reality is flawed, they all just nod their heads and agree to wish their problems away with her. And it works! :wtf: Seriously, they literally wish their problems away at the end of that episode, everything that happened in the first two acts is ignored so that Janeway can give a nice, inspirational speech.

    It was a good episode overall, but that final minute pisses me off no end.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Void.

    Scorpion.

    Year of Hell.

    Janeway's not above making an alliance if she needs one.

    Here's the thing.

    Janeway doesn't just speak for Janeway, or even just her ship.

    When Janeway makes a deal, she's speaking for the entire Federation.

    If Seska had a diplomatic rank beyond "spy" could she bindingly speak for Cardassia?

    Technically, Kazon Space had or was in the process of being Annexed by Cardassia, that Seska had at least the military authority to field commission herself to Governor, Dictator or Legit who technically should be able to speak for the Union?

    A treaty between the Federation and Cardassia approved by the Maquis.

    Sweet.
     
  5. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It definitely goes along with "The First Duty" for me on the list of most infuriating conclusions to an episode.
     
  6. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What infuriates you about TFD? Sorry, been a while since I've seen it...
     
  7. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wesley decides to tell the truth about the incident instead of sticking by his friends and remaining silent. The moral seems to be that the duty to tell the truth is more important than loyalty to your friends. As a normal person, that doesn't really appeal to me and it made me dislike Wesley even more. If he'd kept his mouth shut, they all would have stayed at Starfleet Academy no problem, but he opened his mouth which nearly led to the expulsion of all four of him. Thankfully LoCarno (aka Tom Paris I) knew what friendship meant and sacrificed himself to save the other 3 INCLUDING Wesley who just betrayed him. I nearly included it in my top 30 Star Trek episodes but when I was editing the video (to be uploaded to youtube soon), I remembered how much I hated the ending so Deadlock took its place!
     
  8. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, "Alliances" was pretty annoying especially since the idea of Voyager trying to build a Delta Federation would've been a fine progression/alteration of the main plot as the "Lost in Space" angle was wearing thin by that point.
     
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Huh. Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
     
  10. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You think its ok to betray your friends just to have a clean conscience


    Yeah well you're right I guess, since they shouldn't have even been in Kazon space for 2 whole seasons. They could have at least given us some sort of reason why there were to work it out, perhaps damage to the warp engines that made their maximum warp only warp 4 or something.
     
  11. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If I go drinking and driving with my friends and we get into an accident that kills someone in my car, is it proper that my friends should stick up for me and claim the accident wasn't my fault? Am I somehow not responsible because my drunken friend chose to get into the car with us?

    I don't see how one could have a clean conscience about lying to Starfleet and one's family and friends, smearing one's (now dead) friend's name, lying to his obviously grieving father...

    I accept that there may be times when it's a Starfleet officer's job to lie. In this particular case? Not for a minute, and it was horribly cowardly of Wesley's friends to ask him to do so rather than face up to the consequences of their own arrogance. For what they're trying to do, they deserve to be betrayed.

    Not that Starfleet learned anything about breeding cadets who think they're superior to other cadets. Red Squad pretty much proves my point.

    I'll give Locarno some points for owning up to his role in the situation, but it smacks of, "it's only illegal if you get caught."
     
  12. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Real friends don't ask you to lie for them. Wesley did the right thing by telling the truth and fessing up to his crime.
     
  13. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Let me add my part in defense of normal people.
    A friend is not the same thing as an accomplice, not even a stand up accomplice. Only a fool thinks there's such a thing as thieves' honor, and only a despicable fool thinks it's the essence of morality.

    As to the Alliances episode, Voyager most certainly did do something. It may be too subtle a point to grasp but arranging a diplomatic summit is most certainly doing something. And being part of an attempted assassination, even unintentionally, is most certainly doing something bad. Trying to force anger against Janeway by falsifying the facts of the story is, well, perhaps it would be politer not to say outright.

    The Caretaker established that the series was ultimately about getting home. The Odyssey and all that. It might have been interesting to see the Delta Federation but that wasn't the show. I think the Prime Directive really is too vague and really kind of backward morally to base even a TV series on, much less a hypothetical political entity.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You all remember that Wesley didn't admit what happened until after Geordie and Picard had already figured out what had happened?

    Locarno's great plan was to say to incontrovertible evidence and a Starship Captain, "The evidence can support that theory, because it might have happened, but it didn't, you're in error and you can't make any of us say otherwise becuase we refuse to lie just because you seem intimidating."
     
  15. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Last I checked Wesley wasn't drinking Hennessey with "Thug Life" tattooed on his belly.:rolleyes:
    Seriously, I think you have Trek confused with HBO's "Pimps Up, Ho's Down"?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  16. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You'd have a point if Janeway's speech had said "We should never do anything, doing things is dangerous", but if Janeway's speech had said that I would have gone off on an entirely different rant. No, Janeway's speech said this:

    Now forgive me if this sounds stupid, but all those times I saw the Enterprise hosting peace conferences kinda gave me the impression that promoting peace was in line with the ideals and principles of the Federation.

    The only things I force are bad jokes and self-confidence, my anger grows naturally from my bitter nature.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to spread lies about other TV shows that I find mildly disappointing, because that's what I do apparently.
     
  17. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think Wesley's decision stank of self-righteousness. He got one friend expelled from Starfleet and made life for himself and the other two extremely difficult and tarnished their careers all so he could say he kept his precious principles.
     
  18. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    I just watched a couple more Voyager episodes.

    Dreadnought: Fairly predictable. It was obvious from the beginning that they would fine a way to deactivate the missile. Nevertheless, it was a fine episode. I liked seeing Torres deal with her past mistakes, and the actor who portrayed her gave another terrific performance. I don't have any major complaints (other than it being predictable), but at the same time this wasn't a very profound episode.
    5/10

    Death Wish: A very interesting moral dilemma and the return of Q, one of my favorite TNG guest stars, made for a very good episode. I didn't care for the ending, though. I felt that 2nd Q died too quickly, and emotionally I didn't have enough time to respond to it. Nevertheless, a very fine Voyager offering.
    7/10
     
  19. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't see how it's self-righteous to own up to your mistakes, especially mistakes that got one of your friends killed. To say "I'll lie about what happened to my one friend to cover my other lying friends' asses," seems a bit hypocritical and certainly not very friendly to the dead one.

    I believe the word you were looking for is "mature", not "self-righteous."

    That said, if you're willing to throw one of your friends' good names under the bus to save others...well, remind me not to be friends with you if there are any buses around.
     
  20. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes, I would - if its for the greater good which in this case it was, to protect the interests of the remaining 4 live friends.

    RE: Death Wish, I despise Q so I rarely rewatch Q episodes
     

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