Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I agree and disagree.
    Yes, I find much of the middle of both seasons lackluster but I found eps. like "Pathfinder" and "Life Line" the lowest of the low. They reek of TPTB being so desperate to make larger ratings numbers by using star power. Instead of using those eps. for what they should have done, start writing again for the characters they already had like Tuvok, Chakotay or Neelix. Why give reaccurring parts to characters that aren't part of the show, when you have perfectly good ones in need of further development in the existing main cast?
     
  2. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Sorry if this question seems silly, but I keep seeing the acronym TPTB used by people on this site, and I'm not sure what it means. Could someone please tell me? Thanks!
     
  3. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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    The Powers That Be.
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The People To Blame
    The Powers That Be
    The Paramount Top Brass

    Pick any or all of the above. :)
     
  5. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Ah, okay. That makes perfect sense. Thanks!
     
  6. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well he either didn't consider it, or he did consider it and decided he didn't give a damn. Quite obviously.

    Barge of the Dead is one of my absolute favorite Star Trek episodes and my favorite VOY episode. I absolutely loved the concept and the execution. Its amazing how Bryan Fuller can go from writing total brilliance to total junk and back again.

    Likewise, Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy is another top notch episode that managed to be very funny which isn't common for Voyager in my opinion.

    As for it being a strong start (although I'd disagree and say Equinox 2 wasn't that strong), it did have 3 excellent episodes at the beginning. The rest of the season has some really excellent shows that are some of my favorite too, but is a little inconsistent. I think season 6 would have been a lot better if Ronald D. Moore had stayed and was allowed more input too. Alas, twas not to be.
     
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Or he knew that it was a non-issue...but hey, let's not give Sisko any benefit of the doubt, because it's much more dramatic to just say he poisoned a planet than it is to pay any attention to the details.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Give me some details?

    Do they beat

    Sisko Teraformed a planet that had life on it.

    Just like the klingons wanted to do with Genesis.
     
  9. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Let's be realistic here. It was a fairly new colony and I highly doubt all the flora and fauna had been catalogued, and Sisko had time to do an environmental impact report.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    exactly.

    He didn't have time, so he used that 'weapon' illegally.

    Sisko somehow thought that he had to react ''now" to be the big man, when he could have been the bigger man and just walked away... Then came back with a fleet in a few days and police the frakk out of those terrorists.
     
  11. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If you read that Ronald D. Moore interview, you'll see he was really adamant that this episode would have a major impact on B'Ellana/her relationship etc.
     
  12. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    I actually avoided that part of it because I didn't want to read any spoilers about Barge of the Dead, but now that I've seen it I can go back and read the rest.
     
  13. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    The sad thing about Barge of the Dead is that it could have been even better, but RDM walked out during production. It still ended up being a good B'Elanna story, but TBTB stuck their fingers in the pot. RDM didn't like that.

    Who knows what awesome episodes in seasons 6 and 7 we could have gotten had RDM stayed on board.
     
  14. Lord Manitou

    Lord Manitou Commander Red Shirt

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    I didn't doubt a moment B'Ellana would live through her wake-dream ordeal in sick-bay. With the doctor and Tom and the captain watching every moment. There she meets Kayless and the 'first' Klingon and she has another argument with her mother. It's one of the few shows that seems so un-immaginative.
    In "Tinker, Tailor, Doctor,Spy the doctor asks for more power and sub-programs for his already affluent program. This he receives but only because of Janeway's generosity.
     
  15. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Alice: Terrific performances from the cast coupled with a totally pointless story made for something watchable but not all that enjoyable.
    4/10

    Riddles: A fun episode that explores the relationship between Neelix and Tuvok. I always enjoy seeing Tuvok act out of character, so seeing the "new" Tuvok was a lot of fun. Neelix was also enjoyable, and I really liked the way he looked after Tuvok.
    In many ways, Neelix's and Tuvok's relationship reminds me a lot of Spongebob and Squidward's relationship, for those of you who are familiar with that show. Just a fun little observation. :)
    8/10
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You know how B'Elanna died in faces?

    And they replaced her with a duplicate?

    And never mentioned it again?

    Just saying.

    They could have replaced her again easy.

    And since she was just a Frankenstein's monster science experiment, isn't it remarkable that she thought that she had a soul?

    So precious.

    I mean, since she didn't have a soul, and her children wouldn't have souls, everyone knew during that episode, that she was just dreaming in a near death state, which is all they were doing in flatliners, getting high...Till everything went horribly wrong with that punk kid ghost wailing on Jack Baur.

    So.

    Barge of the Dead was all about B'Elanna tripping balls.

    Nothing else.
     
  17. TenLubak

    TenLubak Commander Red Shirt

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    No, I think Star Trek Voyager is the worst Star Trek, because there is nothing new here. It is during the mid nineties where Star Trek had run out of gas , people were sick of it, and all the ideas (well most of em are recycled from TOS TNG, or other works outside of Trek). Throw in the B cast of actors, and boring as hell dialgouge, and music, and what you get is a flavorless, play it so safe that its boring generic shell of Star Trek The Next Generation. Only the aliens are way uglier with more rubber, there is nothing that as fan of the Star Trek Universe I care about since there are out in bum kucf space. It was made to make a dollar or two and I suppose it suceeded at that. The technobabble is at the extreme here, and there is alot of Treks own in universe 'science' rules that are totally ignored. Characters actions on what they would do totally are inconsistent with what they did last year , or last month, or even 4 years ago. So there's that. And there's that clown ass-jerk Neelix. He the most selfish ugly jerk in Star Trek. No wonder everyone else hates him. I mean he stayed on the ship after his child girlfriend died, and i suppose hes there because he doesnt have an friends anyway, and well its a good deal for him they give him all lifes essentials to live in luxury and provides the crew with well his amatuer cooking which sucks, his blabbering about insignificant thinks at totally inapporiate times, and his overall lack of knowledge about anything relevant.

    The show is a disapointment for sure. Where as Deep Space had great writing, this one did not.


    It took me about 15 years to get around to watching many of the episodes thinking theres got to be some good ones, there are, but there aren't many great ones, and in fact not on Voyager episode jumps out at me in my head as a wow. Maybe that one where the guy in the black suit uses Janeway and plays classical music throughout the ship, but over all, its mostly a show about Harry Kim and Tom Paris racing around in a Delta Flyer hotrod they built, wasting power on the holodeck so it cause a problem, and um plundering worlds, causing problems for the aliens, and becoming known to delta quad races as the "ship of death".

    And yeah thats what they called Voyager "ship of death". Beause thier captain makes self abosorbed choices where her singular goal is to get her crew home at ANY cost. What a crazy woman. She really could have destroyed the whole galaxy, time line, and really just made a big mess of creation to get a her crew home, which SHE stranded by blowing up the Caretaker ,WHICH could have sent them home! Because she failed to consider any other alternative, actually i'm not sure she didn't get stranded out there on purpose. Can any one else think of any alternatives to the delmema presented to Janeway at the end of CAretaker? My nephew in 5th grade had about 6 or 7. But Janeway, A STAR FLEET captain- she did not.


    Man i didnt realize how much i disliked this show. And when it got bad ratings what was the solution, add a borg with HUGE boobs and have her walk around in skin tight outfits. Not better writing, planning the series more than 5 mins ahead of time, no the solution- boobs.

    Yea...

    Well at least Tim Russ did an excellent job with making Tuvok- the most boring character on paper- the most interesting on in the show.


    Its still better than most other shows on Tv- but just barely. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  18. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway had no choice, because the Array was not an option. It would've taken hours to get the Array running to send them home, and by then Kazon reinforcements would've gotten there and overwhelmed them.

    And no, they couldn't use their cobalt explosive torpedoes on the Kazon ships there because that wouldn't stop the reinforcements AND they'd have lost the only thing they had to blow up the Array with.
     
  19. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    8/10 seems like a very high score for "Riddles". I actually often find it really cringeworthy when actors act against the type they've been playing......whenever Brent Spiner played Lore/characters from Masks whatever, I found it excruciating to watch. Something similar happened with Tim Russ in "Riddles". I think "Riddles" and "Alice" go fairly well together - pretty bland but watchable episodes, but overall there's just a real lack of ambition there, moreso with "Alice".
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Jabin had to be bluffing about reinforcements, and Neelix knew it, if anyone had bothered to ask him, just like he knew that any Kazon who sends out a distress signal is seen as weak and ripe for annexation by another sect in Initiations.

    If Jabin asked for help, he'd lose Ocampa and the Array to a stronger Maje.

    Janeway didn't understand her enemy and was making bad decisions predicated on poor comprehension of the field of play.