Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You imagined the Kazon arc. They're barely there and it wasn't an organized effort to forward their agenda.

    Martha was in 13 episodes on Voyager.

    Season 1: 5 episodes, however 4 of those episodes were as a Bajoran extra and no one, not even Berman suspected her destiny till they started writing State of Flux.

    Season 2: 5 episodes.

    Season 3: 2 episodes.

    So really that's 12 appearances out of 68 episodes accounting for the first 3 seasons, Seska was forcing the Kazon to bump heads with Janeway.

    ...

    Morn was in 91 episodes.
     
  2. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Say what you will about the Kazon Arc, but I still consider it to be the high point of Voyager's entire run. State of Flux, Maneuvers, Alliances, Investigations, and Basics Part 1 and 2 make for a really exciting and entertaining run of episodes. (I didn't include Initiations because it made the Kazon look like Klingon wannabes).
     
  3. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think its true to say that Voyager didn't change, I really do think the quality of the writing did improve from season 4. However I don't think the showrunning improved at all, it got worse in season 3, improved a bit in 4, and then was in unambitious autopilot for 5, 6 and 7.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    An arc, to me, is like a ball in flight. starts on the ground, flies into the air, higher, then begins to descend, and finally collides with the earth again.

    Jonas had an arc.

    Nobody spy. Hero spy. Unmasked spy. Dead spy.

    Which took three episodes to play out one after the other.

    And what Tom was doing int he background at the time was really interesting.

    The Kazon stories were just things that happened haphazardly in no particular order, barely in relation to one another, until Seskas death, not that`ever stopped her.

    We're going to get you! Janeway stops them.

    Several months of something else.

    We're going to get you! Janeway stops them.

    Several months of something else.

    We're going to get you! Suder stops them.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that the Kazon were the best villains on Voyager and most thought out villains on Voyager, but that's not saying much really.
     
  5. WarpCore

    WarpCore Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Facts aren't completely neutral. Accepting knowledge obtained through unethical means justifies the unethical actions as if they were acceptable. You can't change the past and can't control the future, but you can avoid encouraging the repetition.


    It felt forced like they were trying to pull off TNG but forgot they weren't TNG. I give them props for trying but that's it.

    I'd go with hypocrite since France generates nearly 80% of its electricity from nuclear plants. They rely on nuclear more than any other country.

    Stadi would have been helpful to the show, imo. Alicia Coppola was smoking hot in her limited scenes.
     
  6. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    I got my Alicia Coppola fix in Jericho. Then they cancelled that show. Idiots.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I got my Alicia Coppila fix in the Nine Lives of Chloe King. Then they cancelled that show. Idiots.
     
  8. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Latent Image: I'm so tired, I can hardly type......just wanted to say I enjoyed this episode. Good development for the doctor, good moral dilemma(s), fine acting, I enjoyed the flashbacks too. My only gripe is the way Janeway dismissed the doctor as "just a hologram" at the beginning in her scene with 7 of 9. That was definitely not in her character, and I thought everyone had moved past that issue four seasons ago.
    All in all, very good.
    7/10
     
  9. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think "Latent Image" is a fantastic episode, one of my all time favorite in Trek. No matter how annoyed I would get with Voyager's flaws, its episodes like "Latent Image" that remind me Voyager was still a really good series for the most part.
    The mystery in the beginning, the ethical dilemma of the crew, the ethical dilemma of the doctor, it was fantastic. The concept of the Doctor suddenly becoming unable to function because he saved a friend instead of an acquaintance when they had an equal chance of living is a really wonderful concept - the kind of thing we didn't get in DS9 because it was so story-arc based. That's why I can appreciate Voyager as a sort of counterpoint to what DS9 was doing at the time, they both fulfilled certain needs - the need for big story arcs and drama, and the traditional concept episodes.
    Only one thing bothered me and that was the lack of continuity regarding the timeline, since Kes would have been in sickbay, not Tom. A throwaway line explaining her whereabouts would have done it. Oh and its interesting how Seven has completely supplanted Kes in being the champion for the Doctor's rights. Here, Seven tries to convince Janeway that the EMH is more than just a hologram when it was Kes who had done it before in very similar circumstances.
    Personally I had no problem with Janeway's reaction to the Doctor. She'd clearly been through the whole thing before and decided that the EMH really is a computer program that is essential to the ship and if it malfunctions, then of course it needs to be repaired.
     
  10. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Whilst an interesting episode, I wonder what happened to all those stasis pods Voyager had and why they didn't use one. Though I guess it might have taken longer to prep one than they had but a throwaway line could have said as much.
     
  11. jpch

    jpch Commander Red Shirt

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    Latent image and nothing Human an amazing brawl with ethic and morals i just love the doctor in those 2 episodes
     
  12. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Here are my scores for season 5 so far:
    Night 5
    Drone 6
    Extreme Risk 5
    In The Flesh 7
    Once Upon a Time 6
    Timeless 10
    Infinite Regress 5
    Nothing Human 8
    Thirty Days 8
    Counterpoint 9
    Latent Image 7

    A couple scores, like Drone and Nothing Human, have been slightly adjusted, but for the most part they haven't changed. Now take a look at the other seasons 11 episodes in:

    Season 1:
    The Caretaker P1/P2 5
    Parallax 6
    Time and Again 5
    Phage 5
    The Cloud 4
    Eye of the Needle 7
    Ex Post Facto 4
    Emanations 3
    Prime Factors 7
    State of Flux 7

    Season 2:
    The 37’s 5
    Initiations 3
    Projections 6
    Elogium 2
    Non Sequitur 6
    Twisted 6
    Parturition 6
    Persistence of Vision 3
    Tatoo 2
    Cold Fire 7
    Maneuvers 7
    Resistance 5

    Season 3:
    Basics P2 10
    Flashback 6
    The Chute 5
    The Swarm 5
    False Profits 3
    Remember 5
    Sacred Ground 3
    Future’s End P1 5
    Future’s End P2 7
    Warlord 5
    The Q And The Grey 3

    Season 4:
    Scorpion P2 7
    The Gift 5
    Day of Honor 6
    Nemesis 4
    Revulsion 8
    Scientific Method 5
    Year of Hell Part One 8
    Year of Hell Part Two 9
    Random Thoughts 5
    Concerning Flight 8
    Mortal Coil 6

    It's an interesting comparison. The beginning of season 4 was close to as good as the beginning of season 5, but the other three seasons were wildly uneven. A nice sign of improvement.
     
  13. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    Not that you'd be immediately interested in doing this, but I wonder if your scores would change the second time around. For example, your season 1 and season 2 scores may turn out differently now that you know and are familiar with the characters. I know that many people who hated Neelix have a different opinion of him the second time around.
     
  14. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Every once in a while I'm tempted to rewatch VOY episodes, and I'm torn between whether I should buy the DVDs knowing the price I'll pay in lesser-quality episodes (this was much less of a concern for me with DS9, the only Trek series I have on DVD), or whether I should try going through my old VHS tapes.
     
  15. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    If Voyager ever comes to blu ray I will gladly buy each season and rewatch the episodes then. Let's hope that TNG-R is a big enough hit to convince CBS to bring the other Trek shows to HD.
     
  16. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    I would suggest waiting for the blu rays. It could be another 5 years or more until they're released, assuming it happens at all, but if you don't mind waiting a long time I'm sure it will be worth it.
     
  17. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    Netflix. Way cheaper and doesn't require investing in physical media.
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Ebay is the place to go for super cheap Voyager DVD sets. Just beware the Asian knock-offs!
     
  19. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    Even better. It's funny I didn't think of that because that's how I've been watching Voyager. :)

    Netflix is highly recommended!
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What should have been said to Berman when casting Harry Kim?