Does It Get Better???

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by AdmiralScreed, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    How could they have a water planet and not include the water hungry Kazon, or at the very least, a throw away line from Neelix, considering water to him used to more valuable than latinum to a Ferengi.
     
  2. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Good point. A couple references to events from previous seasons would have been nice.

    With that said, I do recall a conversation between Janeway and Kashyk in Counterpoint where Janeway mentions that crewmen Suder was killed by the Kazon. It may have just been one or two lines, but it was great because it was an acknowledgement of something important that happened earlier in the show. And it doesn't hurt that it was a reference to one of my all time favorite Trek episodes, Basics.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    That's what I never got about Suder, if he was a full telepath, first he would have been impressively valuable to the mission and second he would have laughed at the Vulcan's touch-telepathy-information-dump when he should have been capable of a much more "selective" inspection of his crewmates memories...

    I assumed Suder was a gimp.

    Something had deprived the poor bastard of his telepathy which is what created his antisocial, homicidal and terroristical behaviour.

    I've watched enough Criminal Minds to figure out that telepathic dysfunction can easily be substituted for Sexual Dysfunction, and all the murderous extents these people are willing to go to replicate the "highs" from a healthy sexlife they're incapable of doing so vanillaly.

    Maybe Suder did something wrong on Betazed and he was lobotomized?

    Oh.

    Suder's defence "i didn't like the way that guy was looking at me" for murder is a much more intense defenceif he had also included the conditioner "I didn't like what he was thinking while he was looking at me"
     
  4. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Location:
    Trill, Federation World and Proud
    Hey Admiral, you should do a season 4 retrospective thread!
     
  5. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Thanks for the reminder! I will make one shortly.
     
  6. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Location:
    California
    He was a gimp. He was explicitly referred to as such when we were introduced to him. For whatever reason, he did not have the telepathic/empathic abilities of the rest of his species, and this may have either contributed to or may have been the reason why he was such a psychopath. In fact, that's one of the reasons Tuvok did a mind meld with him. To his credit, the mind melds really did help him out.

    Lt. Stadi would have been helpful to the mission had she not gotten herself killed in Caretaker. She was a Betazoid, too.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I so wanted to see how her sex drive would triple with middleage.

    Considering how Dee's "abilities" worked for Picard the Diplomat, imagine how Stadi's "abilities" would help Voyager avoid torpedo vollies and continuous phaser fire for Janeway the anthill kicker if she was inside the minds of the crew trying to destroy her that she could know where they are going to shoot before they press their buttons, or make them think she is exactly where she isn't...
     
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    That happens after decades of time has passed.
    The Federation doesn't know the Nazi' or what they did during WWII. That's something in history books that happened centuries ago to them. What happened between the Cardassians and Bajoriens just ended a few years ago. All those graves of those people that were experimented on in the name of science are still fresh. The young Bajorian children that had to witness all that are only in there late 20's early 30's. For them, all that Mossett did just happened like it was yesterday. By the time Voyager left DS9, the Cardassains had only been gone from Bajor 4 years ago maybe. It makes prefect sense that such a dilemma is brand new for them.
     
  9. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    I supposed the Caretaker felt that way before his tampering with a biosphere destroyed an enter ecosystem.
    The person that represented the entire body of that civilization told Janeway and Tom "No". Tom listens to the guy that had the representation of nobody.
    That government could see such a thing as an act of terrorism. Tom would have gotten everyone on Voyager executed.
    If Janeway breaks a rule of government, sh would ask that only she be blamed and negotiate her crew be released. Tom as a crewman has no such barginning chip. His actions doom everyone.
     
  10. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Location:
    Stain'd-by-the-Sea
    No.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Imagine if some French guy, for the good of the planet neutralized all the nuclear power stations in America and Russia.

    Hero or terrorist?

    You know what with America and Russia turning to into third world countries over night, becuase no ones toys or heating works. The population would halve within 10 years if tey didn't start a war and acually use other countries like juiceboxes.

    That's what I liked about the new The Day the Earth Stood Still... "i've come to save the world by destroying humanity, a life supporting ecosystem is far more important than any one life form crawling across it."
     
  12. The Dominion

    The Dominion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2011
    Location:
    Gamma Quadrant
    Well hopefully the Federation reads their history books.
     
  13. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is if someone didn't act immediately the planet was doomed. Because Tom's attempt to save the planet was thwarted by Janeway, it's more than likely that the planet ended up being destroyed and all of the inhabitants killed. :(
    We have no way of knowing what eventually happened, but I'm willing to bet that because of Janeway's foolish decision the whole alien population was destroyed.
     
  14. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    Thank you for the very insightful viewpoint! :techman:
     
  15. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Location:
    Stain'd-by-the-Sea
    I'm right, though.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Yes he is.

    Voyager from end to beginning was consistent.

    If you thought it started bad, it continued to be that bad.

    if you thought Voyager was awesome in the beginning, it continued to be awesome.

    There was no amazing drop off or rise in quality baring a few statistical deviances.

    More so, I'd say that this status quo began around about season 4 of TNG and continued till the final episode of Enterprise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I do not wish to accept this as it makes all my evangelism futile.

    FUTILE.

    Some truths are too unpalatable.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Don't worry, we'll always have Living Witness.

    (And Threshhold.)
     
  20. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2011
    I'm close to half way through season 5 so far, and here's what I think:

    Season One was just okay. Not very good, not terrible either. Kind of bland.
    Season Two was inconsistent, but when it was good (i.e. The Kazon Arc) it was REALLY good. And when it was bad it was quite painful to watch (Elogium, anyone?)
    Season Three was inconsistent like Season Two, but it had a handful of real gems mixed within some pretty bad episodes.
    Season Four was the first season, IMO, that was consistently good. Hardly any bad episodes at all. Very enjoyable, and definitely the best season up to that point.
    Season Five is too early to judge because I've only seen maybe 10 episodes, but so far I think it's a little bit better than Season Four.

    So, in short, I do think the show is improving.